Trick or Treating - Halloween Theme

Tanner 0:01

Okay. Bribe them to get into heaven. Got it. Yeah.

Andi 0:03

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Sure.

Sups 0:07

I don't doubt that right to my heart. Yeah I don't

Andi 0:09

you guys you have to question it. It's a

Sups 0:12

big fact. I don't doubt it.

Tanner 0:15

And everyone decorates their houses and it, becomes like a whole fair. Yeah.

Andi 0:19

it's like you go into the upside down, or like you went through a portal and now you're in the magic version of your town. Yeah. Yes People will do a lot of things for Candy Hello and welcome to this episode of the I Should Have Known podcast, the trivia podcast that can't be trusted. Each week, our Quizmaster presents you with four big facts on a topic, but one of those facts is a lie, and we are celebrating Halloween all month here at the I Should Have Known podcast. And I am your first Quizmaster. I'm Andy. I lost my voice at Octoberfest, so I'm going to sound like this. I'm going to be presenting you four facts about trick or treating, but one of my facts is lie. So join our other hosts, Soups and Tanner, and figuring out which one it is.

Tanner 1:05

Trick or treating is always fun. This is gonna be a fun one, I think. You think so? Yeah.

Andi 1:09

I love trick cuz it's just like the childlike joy of trick or training So exciting,

Tanner 1:13

so innocent. It's fun It's awesome Yeah

Andi 1:16

So low hanging fruit. I apologize This is not very low

Sups 1:19

Oh

Andi 1:20

what is the name of the pre-Christian Celtic holiday that is considered the precursor to Halloween?

Sups 1:26

Oh,

Tanner 1:27

help? Oh man. Is that Sam, Sam Ha something like that.

Andi 1:33

Yes. Okay. so it's a Celtic holiday. And if you know anything about Celtic languages, like in Ireland and Scotland in, in the uk Welsh the spelling is kind of weird compared to the pronunciation, like if you're an English speaker. So it's spelled like Sam Hayne, s a m h a I N.

Tanner 1:51

Mm-hmm.

Andi 1:52

but it's pronounced Sa. Or one syllable. Just sound

Sups 1:58

Sound

Tanner 1:59

Okay. I recognize this like, new age Wicken philosophy has a holiday for these festivals. Easter is a similar precursor event that led to Easter,

Andi 2:10

right? Like the Catholics famously the nicest word is adopted but co-opted these right? Pagan holidays around Europe in order to get people to celebrate Christian holidays. Right So actually Halloween is a Catholic holiday.

Tanner 2:26

Mm-hmm.

Andi 2:27

All Saints Day is a Catholic holiday, which is Halloween is the day before All Saints

Tanner 2:32

Day. Right. So it's All Saints Day Eve.

Andi 2:34

Yes, exactly. All Hallows Eve Halloween.

Sups 2:38

Right. But the Catholics aren't the biggest fans of

Tanner 2:41

No

Andi 2:42

that kind of funny? Yeah, like nowadays, like it's Pagan, it's the a cult and Right. You know, they're not fans following, but it's actually stems from Christian tradition.

Tanner 2:49

Wow.

Sups 2:50

mm-hmm.

Andi 2:50

But originally there was a Celtic holiday called sa and a lot of the traditions around what we do for Halloween come from this holiday, including in a way trick or trading Mm-hmm. Okay, Which is our topic today

Tanner 3:02

so, if you combine Celtic and Catholic, you get Ireland. So are these from Ireland?

Andi 3:07

Yeah. A lot of these traditions are specifically Irish, but yeah.

Tanner 3:11

cool.

Sups 3:12

And is Halloween a bank holiday in the us? No, no,

Andi 3:15

No, It's

Tanner 3:16

just a cultural

Sups 3:17

holiday. Just the

Andi 3:17

holiday and it's a huge cultural holiday. And we'll talk a little more about that. Cool, actually. I have three treats and one trick. Okay. Right. So four facts. One is a lie.

Tanner 3:26

Excellent.

Andi 3:27

fact number one, the phrase trick or treat likely comes from a 17th century rhyme about the gunpowder plot by Guy Fox.

Tanner 3:35

Ooh, I know this one. That's November 5th, From uh V for Vendetta. They, they go in on that

Sups 3:40

course.

Andi 3:41

like the most white guy, like reference for Guy Fox Night.

Sups 3:46

Is there any

Tanner 3:47

other

Andi 3:47

difference

Tanner 3:48

Yeah. Was he even like remembered before that movie or that comic?

Andi 3:52

Well, yeah, actually especially in Ireland, but in the UK in general So Guy Fox Night is November so right around Halloween. Mm-hmm. And again, a lot of the traditions around Halloween come from this. So the big thing is bonfires. Yeah. So they have bonfires for Guy Fox Night. So Guy Fox was a Catholic guy, And he, in the 17th century, tried to blow up Parliament in the King because they were Protestant. And he failed and was executed. And so literally, like from that night, people burned him in effigy, so they made little fig versions of him and burned him.

Tanner 4:26

Wow

Andi 4:26

yeah. So this kind of tradition of dressing up and with fires and stuff kind of related to Halloween. Mm-hmm. a little bit that comes. Guy Fox night. And there's rhyme. about this. You probably know the first verse,

Tanner 4:38

remember, Remember the 5th of

Andi 4:41

Yeah. So I'll read it to you. I'll read you a little bit more and see if you notice something

Tanner 4:46

Without your guy Fox mask. And then you can read the poem.

Andi 4:49

Yeah. Remember, remember the 5th of November the gun powder treason and plot? I know of no reason why the gun powder treason should ever be forgot. Guy Fox and his companions did the scheme contrive to blow the king and Parliament all up. Three score barrels laid below to prove on England's overthrow a treat or trick to light the wick. a stick and a steak for King James sake.

Tanner 5:18

Hmm.

Andi 5:18

So that's the rest of the, of the poem.

Tanner 5:20

very creative with the rhyme scheme there at the end.

Andi 5:24

it rhymes.

Tanner 5:25

Yeah.

Sups 5:25

And England still celebrates this, right?

Andi 5:28

Yeah, like in, in the UK people celebrate this. there's bonfires for Guy Fox night. Yeah. So a lot of the traditions with trick or treating and Halloween they're thousands of years old, so they've, been influenced by many things. there was this tradition back in the day that was called Souling. Where poor people would go to rich people's houses for Cakes. Yeah. the rich people thought my dad ancestors will get into heaven better the more people who pray for them. Okay. So they would invite poor people to come to their house, they'd give them cakes. And then the poor people would pray for their dead.

Tanner 6:04

Okay. Bribe them to get into heaven. Got it. Yeah.

Andi 6:07

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Sure. So this is like a tradition and it usually happened in the fall, So this is kind of the first thing I could find that you could kind of call triggered treating. Right. so later it became more explicitly On Halloween, like related to this because Guy Fox Night this tradition around All Saints Day, people going to people's houses, These kind of all got wrapped up together.

Tanner 6:29

Huh? So it doesn't sound like there's so much mischief or a cult connection with that as we have now.

Andi 6:35

I mean, There's another tradition called Guying. Okay. Which is to put on a disguise so people work costumes. And so in the original Celtic holiday, you dressed up To scare ghosts. Basically that was the day that the dead could come back to earth. So you had to trick them by dressing up like a go or ghost or a dead person. So they wouldn't know when they all went back, they wouldn't take you with

Tanner 6:58

them. They wouldn't take your soul

Andi 7:00

Yeah. Cuz you're

Tanner 7:00

already dead.

Andi 7:01

Yeah. So that was kind of where the dressing

Tanner 7:03

up part

Sups 7:04

Yeah. I see I see

Andi 7:05

Okay.

Tanner 7:06

This is very interesting. It could totally be a lie, you know?

Sups 7:09

I mean, the story sounds like, I wanna say factual, but there's no way these can be. like a hundred percent accurate. It's somebody's sort of observations

Tanner 7:19

or Right How do you verify that

Andi 7:20

That's why I put

Sups 7:21

likely. Yeah. Yeah. You can't put a date, time, and a place like, I mean, yeah.

Andi 7:26

And then the modern version of trick or trading where children go door to door for candy. This is very American. so mostly Irish Americans. a lot of them, they also celebrated Guy Fox night. And so when they came to the US they brought these traditions and then it became very popular around the 1930s. And then in the fifties it was like firmly a very nationwide American tradition to go trick or treating

Tanner 7:49

With like the mass production of candy? Yes.

Andi 7:52

When sugar rationing ended after World War.

Tanner 7:54

ii. Oh, okay. Now this lines up. I get the timeline now. So you jump from 17th century, get to the phrase, to 1950s America.

Andi 8:02

Yeah.

Sups 8:02

still Yeah

Tanner 8:03

cuz like you said, it's very hard to verify and the days are a little off, but could be

Sups 8:09

Could be. I mean, there is potential. Yeah. So.

Tanner 8:11

Let's hear the other three.

Andi 8:12

Yeah. So let's talk about candy Yeah. fact number two, Halloween is the holiday with the highest candy sales in the us.

Sups 8:22

Hmm.

Tanner 8:22

I'm immediately thinking of other holidays. I mean, on the surface it could be true. Yeah. Cause so many people in businesses buy candy

Sups 8:30

What about Valentine's

Tanner 8:31

Day? Yeah. Valentine's Day is just all candy and chocolates Christmas, not so much. There's some candy in like advent calendars, but nowhere near Halloween.

Sups 8:40

Yeah. I always have a problem with this. Highest, biggest, smallest, so, you know, What's your source?

Tanner 8:46

Yeah.

Andi 8:47

various consumer reports Right? You know. they just So they said the expected, total planned candy expenditure for the 2022 Halloween season is 2.6 billion.

Tanner 8:58

Wow That's a lot of money Yes

Andi 9:00

Just the candy. Total Halloween expenditure is expected to be about 10 billion. So a full like 20% of that is candy. Right

Tanner 9:09

And then dentist costs the next month go up

Andi 9:12

Right.

Sups 9:13

I can't really bad, like

Andi 9:14

Yeah. Yeah. People rewarded, expecting to pay almost $30 per person.

Tanner 9:19

Wow.

Andi 9:20

on candy

Tanner 9:21

For one day That is wild.

Andi 9:23

It's the second biggest consumer holiday in the US

Tanner 9:26

after Christmas. After Christmas.

Andi 9:28

I think people who haven't been to the US during Halloween. Would be surprised to know how much Halloween stuff there is. Like literally every business, every town has decorations for Halloween,

Sups 9:39

right?

Tanner 9:40

in America, even in September. They have aisles and aisles of Halloween decorations and candy and costumes Right So this kind of checks out. That's a lot of money to be spent on

Andi 9:51

On candy,

Sups 9:53

I mean, Makes sense. I mean Valentine's Day you don't going around buying

Andi 9:57

cash

Sups 9:58

Right

Andi 9:58

All right, so while we're on that, so fact number three, America's favorite Halloween candy is the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup

Sups 10:05

Yeah I don't doubt that right to my heart. Yeah I don't

Andi 10:08

you guys you have to question it. It's a

Sups 10:10

big fact. I don't doubt it.

Tanner 10:12

I really want it to be true cuz that's my

Sups 10:14

favorite. Yeah I love it. That's like my all time favorite candy, like

Andi 10:19

So candy store.com. There we go. Compiled and analyzed lists from other sources. Yeah. And all but one of the lists had Reeses as

Sups 10:28

right? Yeah.

Tanner 10:29

Yeah.

Andi 10:30

So this is not based on sales

Tanner 10:32

What's it based on?

Andi 10:33

People's reported favorites. So it's lists of

Sups 10:36

of like opinions.

Andi 10:37

Yeah. So it's people's opinions. Yeah.

Sups 10:38

No. Makes sense. I mean, it's my favorite. It's your favorite. So yeah, they already got

Tanner 10:43

Yeah, So Candy corn has to be at the bottom.

Andi 10:45

So then also there's worst, They also looked at the

Tanner 10:48

worst.

Andi 10:48

these are from the 2021. Halloween season, candy corn was the worst in 2020, but it has been usurped by circus

Tanner 10:55

Circus

Andi 10:56

literally I don't know anyone who eats

Tanner 10:58

those. I've never

Andi 10:59

They're like orange. They're kind of marshmallowy. So what I found interesting about the, the best and worst. Was that overwhelmingly the best candies have chocolate.

Sups 11:08

Mm,

Andi 11:09

And none of the worst candies did.

Tanner 11:11

Mm-hmm So they're cheaper to

Andi 11:12

to make. So they're cheap to make and they're just sugar. Right

Tanner 11:16

We've talked about candy on this podcast before. Have, Yeah. Candy

Sups 11:20

Corn

Andi 11:20

up We had some

Sups 11:21

some We

Andi 11:22

soups He tried it for the first

Sups 11:24

time. Yeah I wasn't a fan of

Andi 11:26

it. I like it. I don't, It's fine. It's just sweet. It's

Sups 11:29

I mean

Andi 11:30

it's caramelly I like it

Sups 11:32

Mm-hmm.

Tanner 11:32

But people buy them in giant industrialized bags. Yeah. Yeah. And they buy it only for Halloween. But I would eat Reese's any day of the year, you know? So that makes sense to me. Yeah.

Andi 11:43

It's funny because a lot of these lists, like the reason they give the best candies is cuz they're like, what should you pick for trick or treaters when they come

Tanner 11:50

to your house? What do kids

Andi 11:51

Good one I like Reeses, but if everyone is getting Reeses, I'm gonna be mad. Yeah. You know, I want other things Right

Tanner 11:57

I love crunch bars.

Andi 11:59

Oh yeah. You're weird. you love

Tanner 12:00

crisp rice in there Mm. Oh Yeah.

Andi 12:04

But it's an interesting ritual, this whole concept of trick or trading. Yeah. I feel like the concept. More widespread than you would think. Like this idea of going to your neighbors and like exchanging gifts or food or like meeting with each other. Mm-hmm. is pretty common around the

Sups 12:18

Yeah. I mean, in different context, right? I mean, I don't think it's exclusive to a country and it's just packaged in different rituals or holidays,

Andi 12:27

it's about like bonding and building community,

Tanner 12:30

Yeah.

Andi 12:31

One of my favorite things that I love about trick or treating is that it's feels very magical, you know cuz you're a child, but also it is just kind of weird because your whole town opens up.

Sups 12:39

Right.

Andi 12:40

and like you can go places where you couldn't go before Yeah And in our area, people wouldn't drive or they'd try not to drive during trigger treating. And so like, it felt like, almost like Disneyland. It's like, oh, everything's like still and, and it's like kind of magical and people are in costumes and that's like the feeling of Halloween that I really

Tanner 12:59

And everyone decorates their houses and it, becomes like a whole fair. Yeah.

Andi 13:04

it's like you go into the upside down, or like you went through a portal and now you're in the magic version of your town. Yeah. I miss that kind of feeling. Oh

Tanner 13:11

Oh.

Andi 13:12

One more fact.

Tanner 13:12

All right

Andi 13:13

fact, number four. There have been no credible reports of a stranger poisoning a child's Halloween candy.

Tanner 13:19

Oh, the classic scare. Parents are always so scared of this.

Sups 13:24

Why would you do that?

Andi 13:26

It's a very common myth actually. Growing up, like I was not allowed to eat my candy until my parents could go through it. I feel like that was pretty normal. Yeah. You definitely ate it anyway though yeah, You were a

Tanner 13:36

Not eat other Wait wait. No, I already ate it. Sorry. there was a fear of that, like, they're gonna put needles in your, Reeses or like someone

Sups 13:44

Why would someone go through so much effort of like destroy,

Tanner 13:47

Yeah, It's

Sups 13:48

crazy.

Tanner 13:48

when you really think about it. Like who would waste poison or drugs or like these things on random kids. Yeah.

Andi 13:56

You. It seems like very classic, American paranoia Mm-hmm. Cause it's such an individualist society that we're not very trusting people. Yeah. And they have to take the one holiday that's about going around and meeting people and make it scary. Yeah. So this myth, There are a couple origins. It is often reported. And so you can find reports that say this has happened, but you can never trace it back far enough to actually find the There are a couple stories. So in the fifties, there was a woman who was arrested for giving teenagers Aunt poison, But her whole thing was she was protesting teenagers Trick treating. Oh. it was like obviously poison, like she was doing it as like a gig. She also gave them like other weird

Tanner 14:39

like a publicity

Andi 14:40

Like Yeah, she was kind of a protest. Mm-hmm. So like it was clearly labeled poison. Oh. And no one ate it. So like it was fine. But her whole point was like, You shouldn't be trick or treating. I'm gonna give you poison. Yeah. This was in the fifties, you know? Yeah. Just sucking on lead

Sups 14:54

Mm-hmm.

Tanner 14:56

It's a different time

Andi 14:57

So,

Tanner 14:57

everyone was smoking

Andi 14:59

There So this happened that was real. She was arrested and charged with child endangerment. So that's kind of an origin. And then there are two very, very sad stories I don't wanna get into where parents poisoned their child.

Tanner 15:10

Oh no. But it was only theirs. It was not the whole community.

Andi 15:14

Yeah. It was only their child's candy. And one was an accidental poisoning. One was purposeful and mm-hmm. And both times they said they were kind of inspired to hide it by this myth.

Tanner 15:23

Oh

Andi 15:24

So it's not the cause of the myth. The myth was the cause of this method for poisoning.

Tanner 15:29

That's scary. The damage that this misinformation can have.

Andi 15:32

Yeah. Right. So not a stranger.

Sups 15:35

No Yeah. And I would think given like how important this holiday is if any incidents like this would've happened, like I think it'd be like a huge, big news in the media

Tanner 15:45

Yeah.

Andi 15:46

Every year there's some kind of like something that's what your parents are supposed to go through your candy before you can eat it, which I think they're just taking candy for themselves. you know, I had to go through this,

Tanner 15:58

This is just another urban legend, I think

Andi 16:01

So those are my four facts about trick or treating.

Sups 16:03

Very tricky. Do you mind repeating the facts for us before we take a guess?

Andi 16:09

All right. Fact number one, the phrase, trick or treat likely comes from a 17th century rhyme about the gunpowder plot by Guy Fox. Fact number. Halloween is the holiday with the highest candy sales in the us. Fact number three, America's favorite Halloween candy is the Reese Peanut Buttercup. And fact number four, there have been no credible reports of a stranger poisoning a child's Halloween candy. one of those is a lie.

Tanner 16:49

hmm. None of them really jump out at me

Andi 16:54

stop.

Sups 16:55

But number three or four Yeah, that's what I'm thinking

Tanner 16:59

because.

Sups 17:00

with Reeses being like the biggest, The issue is with super relatives. Yeah. Right. with number four. I'm thinking that in the history of Halloween, Yeah. There hasn't been one incident, like, is this possible? Like I understand all mid stem from something. Sure. Okay. These three stories that. Shared. Mm-hmm. Okay. But there has to be one incident, I'm

Tanner 17:23

guessing. Yeah. Where's this idea come from, right? yeah, I'm with you there. Cuz I think with the Reese's one, with number three, there's so many other options, right? It's really hard to pick like, Yep, I believe it. That's Reese's because I'm biased. I like it so much, you know? Yeah, yeah that one sticks out as a very easy lie, The 17th century Guy Fox thing, I'm not convinced, but she said likely So it sounds more believable to me. The dates don't really line up to me, but the poem makes sense. Yeah So I'm with you. I think number four has to come from somewhere.

Sups 17:55

One credible report. Yeah. For me, fact number one is that I have no. Basis not to believe this. Like two is the only one which I'm, let's say, relatively confident about. Yeah.

Tanner 18:06

I think the Reese one I think I'm gonna say it's a different candy.

Sups 18:10

Yeah, I'm with you there. So if you're going with Reese recess, maybe number four. Yeah.

Andi 18:15

Okay, So you've made your guesses. I'm happy to report that. Number four is true. No, no one has poisoned any children. Okay. No stranger has poisoned any children. The lie is fact number one oh. So Guy Fox night. Some of the traditions did inspire Halloween traditions. That's true. I didn't make that up. The phrase trick or treat isn't even a hundred years old.

Sups 18:38

Hmm

Andi 18:39

The phrase it's a very modern phrase. The Oxford English Dictionary's first entry is from 1927

Sups 18:46

Mm-hmm

Andi 18:46

in Canada And even then It wasn't like a clear phrase that people were using. It pops up now and then, but in the 1950s, very firmly trick or treat is the thing that kids say when they go trick or treating.

Tanner 18:57

Right? But where did that come from?

Andi 18:59

it used to be when you would go souling and momming in like the 19th century. early 20th century Mm-hmm. people would pull pranks. So it was more of like literal bribing where it's it's mischief night. So like people would do pranks and practical jokes, and that was kind of tricks

Tanner 19:16

We said

Andi 19:17

that back then. in order to get people to not egg your house or like whatever, you would give them a treat. And then when candy could be mass produced in the thirties and during the depression when it was not very common. people used it as like a bribe against violence. Like they threatened violence. Oh no. So that they could get candy. Oh no. And then, yeah, so by the 1950s in the us. When Candy manufacturing was easy, sugar rations had ended. This was when it firmly became trick or treat. And you can see that in the peanuts.

Sups 19:50

Mm-hmm.

Andi 19:50

There's a Halloween special Yeah. And that's what Charlie Brown says. They all say trick or treat. So by then it was firmly established, the phrase is not very old.

Sups 19:58

Right Okay

Tanner 20:00

Wow that's super cool. So there's no history of poisoning, but there is a long history of bribery. Okay.

Andi 20:07

Yes People will do a lot of things for Candy

Sups 20:10

Yeah Makes sense now. I mean, it all adds up now. Yeah.

Tanner 20:13

Now I wonder, did you make up that poem?

Andi 20:15

treat and a trick to light the wick. That's not a line. I made that up Oh, Everything else is a That's is from the original poem,

Tanner 20:22

I should have known,

Sups 20:23

I should have known.

Andi 20:24

Thanks for listening to this episode of the I Should Have Known podcast. We're continuing to be spooky this month for Halloween, So beyond the lookout for that. And if you would like to leave your hosts a treat, please leave us a review. Wherever you listen to podcasts, especially if you have Apple products, And as always, Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. That's the best I can do.