Fever - Hot Stuff Theme

Andi 0:01

Everything. I know about fevers. I learned from the movie osmosis Jones. and you think I'm joking See that's the part I find unbelievable. Right. You're sitting out on the sun. You're a tasty

Sups 0:17

Yeah. So it makes sense. Whenever I have a fever, I can just ignore and not go to the doctor. Yeah.

Andi 0:23

But really when I was thinking about it, I was like, I don't know as much about fevers as I thought I did, or I, maybe I should. Hello and welcome to the, I should have known podcast, the trivia podcast that can't be trusted each week. Our Quizmaster presents you with four big facts on a topic, but one of those facts is a lie and we're continuing our hot stuff themed month with another hot episode from our Quizmaster Tanner. he's going to be presenting us with four facts on fevers. But careful because one of his facts is a lie. So join me, Andy and our other host soups in trying to figure out which one it is.

Tanner 1:01

Yeah. So let's start with the low hanging fruit. what is the quote, normal body temperature for an average adult human.

Andi 1:09

Ooh, so in Fahrenheit it is 98.6

Sups 1:13

Yeah. So it's about 37 degrees.

Andi 1:15

In Celsius.

Tanner 1:16

Yes, but this is an average. Right. Everyone's body temperature can range depending on the time of day, depending on where you take the temperature, nor normally we're thinking orally with adults,

Sups 1:26

right yes.

Tanner 1:27

So a fever is usually about one degree Celsius above. so that's 38 degrees Celsius or a hundred 0.4 for Fahrenheit.

Andi 1:35

That's pretty high.

Tanner 1:36

Yeah. in medical terms, fever is pyrexia, which is different from hyperthermia. Mainly because a fever is created by your own body. Hypothermia is from the environment.

Andi 1:46

Right. Everything. I know about fevers. I learned from the movie osmosis Jones. and you think I'm joking?

Tanner 1:53

is 20 years old and for kids, but

Sups 1:55

sure.

Andi 1:55

I, we watched it in middle school health. Bill Murray gets a real bad fever and almost dies. Spoiler alert.

Tanner 2:03

We'll see if it actually had some good medical knowledge

Andi 2:06

Okay.

Tanner 2:07

So there's a part of the brain called the hypothalamus that controls our temperature and our urges, like hunger, thirst and sleep.

Andi 2:14

Yeah. That was in osmosis. Joan

Tanner 2:16

Yeah.

Andi 2:17

yes, it was

Tanner 2:19

and so it sets your body temperature. the hypothalamus can raise the body temperature set point with chemicals and proteins to improve immune cell.

Andi 2:30

Oh,

Tanner 2:30

So our immune system cells work better. The warmer it is.

Andi 2:34

Okay

Tanner 2:35

but pathogens. So viruses, bacteria, they can usually only operate within a very, very narrow temperature range, like one degree. wow. So like if E coli is. Optimal temperature is at 98.6. If you go up to 99, then you might kill the coli. Cause it's so sensitive, but your body can withstand that extreme temperature,

Andi 2:58

Yeah. Cuz it's just one little cell and I'm a bunch of cells. Yeah

Sups 3:01

this is so cool. The way you explained it, because it makes me think is that every time I'm feeling sick the symptom is always high temperature or fever. Yeah. Yeah. And this is the reason, right? Well, the bugs, they have such a narrow window Right. Exactly

Andi 3:15

Yeah. I mean, isn't a fever kind of like a dead giveaway that you have an infection. That's why we use like temperature checks.

Tanner 3:21

Yeah, exactly. The most common causes of fevers are infections. It can also be a sign of a drug reaction. So certain drugs can raise your temperature. Autoimmune diseases usually have fevers and cancer can give you a fever too.

Sups 3:35

Of course.

Andi 3:35

Yeah.

Tanner 3:36

So a fever is a sign that your body is working properly because it's a reaction to the pathogen. It's not from the pathogen itself.

Andi 3:43

Right.

Tanner 3:43

So The idea is your body will cook the bad guy before it cooks

Andi 3:47

itself. Yes, Yeah. But if that bad guy has been modified and is like super evil and Vue yeah. Then. It's gonna give bill Murray 108 degree temperature and be very hard to get rid

Tanner 4:01

of. Yes. I would advise everyone to watch osmosis Jones after this let's get into the facts without

Sups 4:06

Let's do it

Andi 4:07

Let's

Sups 4:07

do it All

Tanner 4:08

so fact number one, all mammals and birds can get fevers,

Andi 4:13

Oh Wait, other animals get fevers?

Tanner 4:16

Yeah Like For example, cats can get lots of infections, just like we can cat's body temperatures are naturally about a hundred degrees fah. But they can still get fevers. Just like with our bodies. Exact same.

Andi 4:28

What?

Tanner 4:28

We use a lot of the same medications on cats as humans.

Andi 4:31

Yeah. it's one of those things I just never thought of, but like, I mean We're all animals, right?

Sups 4:37

Like I was this years old when I learned you could give the same message

Andi 4:43

I know. Right. Oh man. But then it also, this is a big fact. So then you have to wonder though, right. Is that true?

Sups 4:50

Chicken can

Andi 4:51

ultimately See that's the part I find unbelievable. Like I could believe mammals, but yeah, you're telling me a bird can get a fever so is it any endo the can get a

Tanner 5:00

fever? Any endom so warm blooded creatures, right So a lot of people are confused about birds. They're warm blooded. But if you listen to our dinosaur episode, you know, that they're descended from dinosaurs. They are

Andi 5:12

dinosaurs, but it is a question whether dinosaurs, as we think of them where warm or cold blooded Yeah.

Tanner 5:17

It's not known. Yeah. when you think of us as animals, it would be very, very odd if we evolved this alone.

Andi 5:24

Yeah. That's kind of what I was wondering when I was like, do other animals get fevers? cuz it seems like. Yeah, they should. But I guess I was wondering at what point evolutionarily. So at the point when creatures went from cold blooded to warm blooded, then they invented fevers.

Tanner 5:39

Yes. Some researchers think that that was the reason we became more blooded so that we could create fevers.

Andi 5:45

Okay. Cuz then my next question is then do like lizards and. Go into the sun to get even warmer when they have infections

Tanner 5:54

Yes This is Exactly

Andi 5:55

true. So they know they have an infection and then they're like, I'm gonna go sit in the sun a little longer than I normally was gonna sit in the sun today.

Tanner 6:01

Yeah. So reptiles and fish, when they get infections, their instincts, tell them to increase their body temperature. And so they give themselves what is called a behavioral fever. they go out in the sun, they sit on rocks, they move around more. So it increases their body temperature. But this puts them in harm's way.

Andi 6:18

Right. You're sitting out on the sun. You're a tasty

Tanner 6:20

Yeah So if you can control your own fever, you can survive better.

Andi 6:25

Okay. Wow. This is. Fairly mind blowing It's such a silly thing to never have considered before. Right. But then maybe that's the twist. Maybe we never consider it or hear about it or talk about it because other animals don't get fevers. Cause I was thinking about other ways that we regulate our body temperature, so human sweat, but most other animals do not sweat. So. Maybe fevers or like that.

Sups 6:51

Yeah.

Andi 6:51

I don't know. I have to hear more facts,

Tanner 6:53

Okay. Fact, number two, fevers don't need to be treated unless you feel uncomfortable.

Sups 6:59

Okay. I can get behind that. Yeah

Andi 7:01

Yeah. Okay. End of fact. Factor number three.

Tanner 7:03

fact number three.

Sups 7:06

but depends defined uncomfortable.

Andi 7:09

the most subjective concept in the world discomfort.

Tanner 7:12

discomfort So we said a fever is technically one Celsius degree above normal. Mm-hmm most fevers don't cause discomfort for most people until you get about 39 degrees Celsius or 102 Fahrenheit. So it's about your own individual feeling. If you feel like you need to take medication to feel better, then you should.

Andi 7:35

Okay.

Tanner 7:35

But if you can grin and bear it, then do it because your body is fighting an infection

Andi 7:41

Is that kind of banking on because I know a lot of people let's be real, sorry. They're all men, they would say I'm not uncomfortable. I'm fine. I'm fine. I don't need to go to the doctor. So This doesn't feel like very good medical advice, because so many people like are like this. Like, I don't wanna go to the doctor. So there must be a temperature where it's like, you gotta do something about this, but you gotta at least take some acetaminophen or ibuprofen or something or you gotta go to the hospital. Mm-hmm so what is that temperature?

Tanner 8:09

untreated fevers caused by infection will rarely go above 105 Fahrenheit or 40.6 Celsius,

Andi 8:16

That's high.

Tanner 8:17

Usually this is if you're locked in a hot car or you're overdressed and you have a fever at the same time. But. If it gets that high, you should go to the hospital. You should take medication.

Andi 8:26

Okay. And

Tanner 8:27

good to know

Sups 8:28

but it's also got to do with how weak or how fatigued you feel,

Tanner 8:31

Yeah yeah yeah If you're also dehydrated,

Andi 8:34

right. it's very rare that you have only a fever. Yeah. You probably have other symptoms. So like

Tanner 8:39

mm-hmm right. The fever will go away in two or three days if it's just an infection. The big idea of like, oh, you have to. Medication to bring down a fever because they're all bad because they'll give you brain damage. This is a myth did it occur to bill Murray in osmosis

Andi 8:53

junk He did not get permanent brain damage, but his fever was 108.

Tanner 8:58

Right? Well, brain damage will really only occur if it's above 107.6 degrees Fahrenheit or 42 Celsius. So that was actually

Andi 9:05

accurate. yeah, he was gonna die.

Tanner 9:07

if you're at or near that temperature, you're already uncomfortable. So you should take medication

Andi 9:13

If you get a fever of 108. Yeah. You should be in the hospital.

Sups 9:17

don't people only start seeing the doctor from hundred one

Tanner 9:20

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Andi 9:22

okay. I mean, it makes sense generally That like as long as you're fine. think so You're fine. Yeah. though, I think they should really. Take into account discomfort is awfully

Tanner 9:32

It is. And if it's a newborn, then if it's raised at all, you should go to the doctor,

Andi 9:37

right? Yeah. And I mean, children have a lower tolerance for discomfort anyway Yeah. So like they're going to complain. As soon as it's possible to complain. Right. Hmm So you said the brain damage can occur around a hundred, 7.6 So that's like nine full degrees above normal. What's the highest temperature someone has ever had you know, a osmosis Jones? Like what range are we looking

Tanner 10:01

at This is a perfect segue. We're gonna jump right into fact. Number three. Oh, the highest recorded human body temperature was 115.7 degrees Fahrenheit or 46.5 degree Celsius.

Sups 10:14

And that person's still alive.

Tanner 10:17

He lived.

Andi 10:18

wow. Oh,

Sups 10:20

Yeah. So it makes sense. Whenever I have a fever, I can just ignore and not go to the doctor. Yeah. Okay. So fact number two is right.

Andi 10:29

fact number two is true. I never need to go to the doctor. Got it that soups has really taken the right lesson from this.

Tanner 10:36

Yes Wow.

Sups 10:37

Wow

Andi 10:37

Okay. Okay. Tell us

Tanner 10:38

more. So in July, 1980, there was a heat wave in Atlanta, Georgia, and this man, Willie Jones, 52 years old,

Andi 10:47

no relation to

Tanner 10:48

us,

Andi 10:48

osmosis?

Tanner 10:49

goes by the nickname. Osmosis. No, Willie was admitted to the hospital with heat stroke that day, the temperature outside reached 32.2 degrees Celsius 90. when he was brought to the hospital in the ambulance, he was in a com.

Andi 11:04

Okay.

Tanner 11:05

And when he awoke, he was tired and very confused. The doctor said he shouldn't be alive. and he was as close to death as anybody gets. But after 24 days, he was discharged and completely recovered.

Andi 11:17

Wow. But this is not a fever,

Tanner 11:20

Did he have a fever at all during that? The newspaper didn't say so.

Andi 11:24

Okay. But we were talking about this, the difference between a fever and like heatstroke, for example. So like this was not a fever,

Tanner 11:32

right? This is the highest recorded body temperature.

Andi 11:35

Wow. So when you get a fever this high, or when you get hyperthermia yeah. What happens to you?

Tanner 11:41

So the enzymes within your organs? They can't function anymore at high temperatures, they fall apart or in medical language, we call it denaturing. Yeah. Because they're

Andi 11:52

being cooked. They're just like a few atoms, like stitched together

Tanner 11:55

Right. And without these enzymes, your cells can't function.

Andi 11:58

Okay. So this guy got that high because of external temperatures. It was hot outside. Made him hot mm-hmm

Sups 12:04

but if your body is hot and all your internal organs are hot, why can't you eat a top of ice cream or just have like ice? Yeah. Cool. Your body temperature down.

Tanner 12:16

But then your body's gonna say the set point is very high. We have to go back. You know So really your fever won't go away until you kill the thing causing the fever.

Andi 12:25

Right. Well, I don't really see how you could have made this temperature up. It's not exactly related to a fever unless Maybe this is Like one of the hottest recorded temperatures on earth and that fever. Embodies do not get this high. And you made up Willie Jones because it sounds like osmosis Jones

Sups 12:43

even the name Willie Jones, I know something's very fishy about it.

Andi 12:48

So. All right. I have to hear one more to decide

Tanner 12:52

Fact number. The higher, the fever, the more serious the illness.

Sups 12:56

Okay.

Andi 12:57

Okay. So if your temperature is still going up it's because you're not killing the thing

Tanner 13:01

Yeah. Normal fevers are between a hundred and 104. If they go above that, those are very high grade fever. Normally common colds. Don't give you a fever at all, or if they do, it's very mild. If you feel like you have a cold and you have a fever, you probably have the flu influenza. A virus usually has fevers around 103 degrees Fahrenheit, 39.5 degrees Celsius.

Andi 13:22

or COVID

Tanner 13:22

COVID is also an infection that's around this level, two adenovirus infections go up to 40 degrees, Celsius and cancers like leukemia lymphoma can give you prolonged high fevers and night sweats when you wake up drenched in sweat.

Andi 13:38

Well, yeah, you have a fever

Tanner 13:39

all night. Yeah.

Andi 13:40

Oh God.

Tanner 13:41

Cause your body's trying to fight cancer by cooking your insides,

Andi 13:45

Hmm

Sups 13:45

I mean, on paper. Yeah, sure. Makes sense.

Andi 13:48

Yeah. Say the fact again

Tanner 13:50

the higher the fever the more serious the illness

Andi 13:53

So Hmm That's such a weird wording because we were talking about how the fever itself is not bad. Fever is really just a symptom really more of like a weapon in your body's armory. Mm-hmm it's your own body doing it. So wouldn't there be plenty of serious illnesses that don't necessarily cause super high fevers cuz if something is attacking some important part of you and your body is not killing it, it doesn't just keep raising the temperature endlessly. And then that's what kills you. Except in osmosis Jones. That's how it worked. So I don't know. That's confusing. it seems obvious like an easy place for that to be lie, to be like, plenty of things can kill you and won't give you a super high fever.

Sups 14:33

Right.

Andi 14:33

Like COVID, for example is a deadly, but does it give people super high fevers? Then you don't even need to do a test you know, because you just look, be like, what's his temperature. Okay. Well, if it's here, then that's the range for. Pathogen. We know what he has. He's sick with this. Then we treat him

Sups 14:50

To me it sounds logical. Like The higher fever you have, the dangerous it is for you.

Andi 14:55

I mean, but if something killed you fast enough, you wouldn't have time to get a high fever. So who cares how high your fever is? Their illness was verys serious. I don't know. I'm skeptical.

Tanner 15:04

we'll get a reading in just a minute

Andi 15:05

Yeah Can you repeat the four facts before we make our final guesses though?

Tanner 15:10

You got it. Fact, number one, all mammals and birds can get fever. Fact number two fevers don't need to be treated unless you feel uncomfortable. Fact, number three, the highest recorded human body temperature was 115.7 degrees Fahrenheit or 46.5 degrees Celsius, and fact number four, the higher the fever, the more serious the illness. One of those is a lie.

Sups 15:47

I'm leaning towards one and three.

Andi 15:51

okay.

Sups 15:52

Primarily because they are super relatives.

Andi 15:54

yeah, it's all. Yeah. I mean the animal thing,

Sups 15:57

Yeah if you'd have stopped at animal and I was okay with it, the moment he said the B word,

Andi 16:02

Mm So birds are the ones where you're like, ah, okay. So you think mammals have them

Sups 16:08

right? Not Birds. birds,

Andi 16:09

I could say that birds, they seem so different from us. It seems like an odd thing that they would have the same mechanism

Sups 16:16

structure together,

Andi 16:17

Yeah. Yeah. Three chambered hearts and hollow bones. I dunno. That's

Sups 16:23

true. Um And Also from the next time I'm going to eat a chicken. I'm gonna be wondering if the chicken had fever or not.

Andi 16:29

or not. Well, it does, after I put all that spicy wing sauce on it

Sups 16:34

but at the same time, that's 115 degrees and that dude was still alive.

Andi 16:39

Yeah.

Sups 16:39

Hundred 15 is really, really

Andi 16:42

high. Yeah. 115 it sounds very familiar. Right? it could be a coincidence mm-hmm but it also kind of sounds like the highest recorded temperature

Sups 16:52

right on earth. I think I'm gonna lean more towards number three.

Andi 16:56

So I was obviously made a big thing about number four. Yeah. So it feels like That could be where I would go. I mean and Like, what is serious, you know, serious and severe are not exactly objective. Correct. I find something weird about that. So I'll go with number four cuz I was harping on it

Tanner 17:11

so you think it's three and you think it's four? One of you is right.

Sups 17:14

okay. That makes me

Tanner 17:15

happy. Yes. One of you is right

Andi 17:17

Birds get, fevers

Tanner 17:19

Birds can get fevers.

Andi 17:20

What?

Sups 17:20

That is amazing.

Tanner 17:21

The lie is fact number four.

Andi 17:23

Oh, wait. That's so weird.

Tanner 17:26

yeah, it's just a coincidence that Willie Jones has the same name as ASMO as Jones. I think the makers of that movie probably read this

Sups 17:32

Could be

Andi 17:33

Oh that's what inspired the movie

Tanner 17:36

The lie was fact number four. This is a common myth. Especially among parents. They worry. Oh no. My kid has a really high fever. It must be really, really serious. No. The exact reading on your thermometer is not an indicator of how sick you.

Andi 17:49

Okay.

Tanner 17:50

Even with a high fever, the cause can be serious or not. So you were saying

Andi 17:55

I was going the other way around

Sups 17:56

opposite.

Tanner 17:57

Yes You were saying there must be some bug that gives you a low fever and kills you. Okay. That can be true. But I mean, cancer so I made up the thing about cancers having really high fevers cancer fevers are not any higher than infection fevers, but they can be prolonged. So if you have a very prolonged, Goes through the doctor. It could be a sign of

Andi 18:16

Oh okay. Because it's your own body doing it. Yeah. How does your own body fry itself? Unless the pathogen learns how to hack your hypothalamus and then you have to

Sups 18:24

have

Andi 18:24

go into it and then fight it on his eyelid or something.

Tanner 18:29

Is that how the movie

Andi 18:30

went? Yeah.

Tanner 18:31

Yeah. Well,

Andi 18:32

I don't know why I remember that movie so, well, I don't remember anything but I remember that for some reason

Tanner 18:37

Yeah

Andi 18:37

Wow. think it's really interesting, like this whole concept, you know, we're talking about fever and hot things and it's like, everyone's had a fever it's so commonplace. It's so normal. But really when I was thinking about it, I was like, I don't know as much about fevers as I thought I did, or I, maybe I should. So this was really interesting. Chickens having fevers. we're never gonna be able to not think about that when I'm eating wings ever again. So wow. I should have known,

Sups 19:00

I should have known.

Andi 19:01

Thanks for listening to this episode of the, I should have known podcast. If you liked it, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcast. And as always, thanks for listening. Yeah. I have disco fever.