Color Idiom Origins - Rainbow Theme

Sups 0:01

I mean, this looks like something my friend William would do. I mean, it's definitely up his alley. Mm-hmm.

Andi 0:08

And this again, goes back that red is the color for danger

Tanner 0:12

Or I think of it like there's blood on your hands.

Andi 0:14

or Exactly.

Tanner 0:16

Why green?

Sups 0:17

Dollar. Dollar bejo.

Tanner 0:18

Oh yeah. Is it money?

Andi 0:23

Literally for all four of these, when I Google them the first hit. All four of 'em were wrong.

Sups 0:27

Mm-hmm.

Andi 0:29

Hello and welcome to, I should have known. the trivia game show that cannot be trusted. Each week our Quizmaster will present you with four facts about a topic, but one of them is a lie. And welcome to season four. I don't know if any of you have been here since season one. Thank you for sticking around. We have a few changes. For the new season. Our biggest thing is the episodes will be up on YouTube. there's not like video of us, but it's the audio on It's easier to interact with people. So if you are one of those people who have been dying to correct us, you finally have a platform. and to kick off our season four, we have our topic for June, which is rainbow. So all kinds of topics about colors and colorful things. And I'm Andy, your quiz master for the week, and I am going to be doing a find the fake episode on color idiom origins. So we're gonna talk about four idioms in English that have a color word in them, and I'm going to give you four origin stories, but one of those stories is a lie. I invented it completely, So join our other hosts, soups and Tanner in figuring out which one it is.

Tanner 1:40

All right? We're word nerds today.

Andi 1:42

I'm a word nerd every day. I, true. Excuse me. And also, if you can't tell, I have a bit of a cold, I guess my voice isn't normally sound like this, I promise.

Tanner 1:52

promise.

Andi 1:53

so if you've been listening since the beginning and you know us, then you know that Andy is a linguist and a total word nerd

Tanner 2:00

Yeah, sometimes you just go on to the dictionary for fun.

Andi 2:03

I do. when I was a kid, I had the pocket version of the Oxford English Dictionary, which It's over a thousand pages of like that paper, thin paper, and that's the pocket version. so I'm really good at words that start with the letters A, B. So another change for season four that we're implementing is we're getting rid of the low hanging fruit, and instead we're calling it, the pub quiz question. So if you're like us and you love to go to pub quiz or trivia at like a bar or this question at the top of the show is, Aim to be like that. So it's a question you might get at trivia and to kind of start the conversation about the topic. So here's mine. what is the name? for the branch of linguistics, which deals with determining the origin of words and the historical development of their form and meanings. In other words, what's the word for the origin of a word?

Tanner 2:56

etymology.

Andi 2:57

Yeah. etymology. So etymology is both the origin itself and the study of these origins.

Tanner 3:04

That's weird that like every word has an etymology. Yep. And it's also called etymology. If you look up Etymologies.

Andi 3:11

Yep. And then bonus point, What do you call a common word origin. That is not actually scientifically

Tanner 3:19

Mm-hmm. That's a folk etymology.

Andi 3:21

Yeah. So folk. Folk etymology. So we're gonna talk about some of those today, which is why I brought it up. So technically these are all color idiom etymologies. But one of them I invented.

Tanner 3:33

Okay,

Sups 3:33

let's do it.

Andi 3:34

Okay. So our first idiom is black sheep of the family.

Sups 3:40

Oh, I know that.

Andi 3:41

you

Tanner 3:41

Black sheep is like someone who sticks out. Cuz they don't fit in. Mm-hmm. To

Sups 3:45

a group. Yeah.

Tanner 3:46

in a family, I think.

Sups 3:47

Yeah. Someone, yeah. Who doesn't follow the norms, I guess. Yeah. Are I am the black shape of my family, yes. yes. Definitely

Tanner 3:57

proud to be the black chef.

Sups 3:59

I dunno if Anyone's ever said, oh, I'm so proud. I'm the black sheep of the family.

Andi 4:03

Well, this is interesting because, in British English, so the o e D only has a disreputable or unsatisfactory member of a

Tanner 4:12

family or group. Oh, no.

Andi 4:14

So it is a very negative word in British English. Mm-hmm. But American English tends to be very American about it. Right. And instead it means more like iconoclastic or unique or individual. Right. Which, and of course an American culture is highly prized, so it's actually kind of has positive connotations

Sups 4:33

Yeah. in the us. Yeah.

Andi 4:34

And in other languages it is pretty strongly negative as well. Yeah. Many in languages use this because of its etymology, like it comes from the Bible.

Tanner 4:44

would explain why it's a widespread. Okay. So where in the Bible do they talk about this?

Sups 4:49

Is it with Abel?

Andi 4:50

It is in the same book as he is, but it's also one of the longest books of the Bible, so you don't get any points for that. It's from Genesis Uhhuh. All right. Specifically Genesis 30 32. Jacob, offers to his uncle to, instead of getting paid in money mm-hmm. He will take all of the black lambs and the white goats or speckled goats. Depends on your translation. Mm-hmm. And then of course, there's some divine intervention and things go very well for Jacob. yeah.

Sups 5:19

Okay.

Tanner 5:20

Okay. But what is the meaning behind that? Like, he's gonna take all the rejects, all the black

Andi 5:25

so it's not exactly clear, but what we do know is that scientifically for the breed of sheep that they used in that region Eurasian and European sheep are usually white, so it is unusual to have black sheeps. They're far fewer black sheep

Tanner 5:40

mm-hmm.

Andi 5:41

So the idea is that like he wouldn't get as many sheep.

Tanner 5:44

so they're rare, not necessarily worth less.

Andi 5:47

Yeah. So this is where the rest of the analogy gets a little tricky. we can thank the puritans for this. Mm-hmm. For the most part. just simply, black is bad, right? Black represents evil. So there's a famous puritan writer, one of the earliest examples in English of this idiom that we have. He is saying we need to cast out all the black sheep from our flock in the same line that he says whores and thieves. And so that's what he means by black sheep. He means black like evil

Tanner 6:18

Oh man.

Andi 6:19

So we have the puritans.

Sups 6:21

This is how you'd imagine if you're taking from the Bible like the most simplistic explanation also that you can have right. Between, yeah. Black and white. Right? black sheep super common.

Andi 6:32

this is where folk etymologies come in. if you Google. where does the idiom black sheep come from? Mm-hmm. The first hit says it's because black sheep are less valuable Than white sheep. Sure. They're wool. can't be dye. You don't But that is not corroborated by linguistic evidence so in a nutshell, what you're guessing if it's real or not, is that this is originally from the Bible and then the puritans made it evil.

Sups 6:57

Yeah. Makes sense. I mean, I have no reason to doubt you. It sounds so, possible.

Tanner 7:04

but if it were a lie, you know, play devil's advocate here. Or like, let's entertain the idea that this puritan's advocate, let's, entertain the idea that this one is the lie. Where else could it be from,

Sups 7:15

Mm. Maybe from some other religious book. Maybe it's not, English. Like I think the English picked it up.

Tanner 7:21

Mm-hmm.

Sups 7:21

But the original is in China somewhere. Mm-hmm.

Tanner 7:23

Maybe. Yeah. It could just be a coincidence that multiple languages have it. It could be that black sheep are unhealthy, you know,

Sups 7:33

like some other Yeah.

Andi 7:35

So, idiom origin number two

Sups 7:37

Is Mm-hmm.

Tanner 7:40

puritans like these, right?

Sups 7:42

white lie is like when it doesn't really affect you, right?

Tanner 7:45

not true, but it doesn't hurt anyone.

Sups 7:47

I used to white lie a lot. I think. I still do, but I think when I was growing up lie?

Andi 7:52

Yeah, right. Can't trust anything you say. I like to think of the aye should known show as a show of white lies. Mm-hmm. Because they're white lies because you know about it and

Tanner 8:02

tell

Andi 8:02

you the

Sups 8:02

truth. Yes. Yeah. We Yeah. Like, I don't want to hurt you because uh, you know, truth only bites or So shirt,

Andi 8:11

Did you just invent an idiom? Sips just

Tanner 8:14

coin.

Andi 8:14

an idiom. It's not,

Sups 8:15

yeah.

Andi 8:16

We're not gonna tackle the philosophy of white lies for

Tanner 8:19

different day. The

Andi 8:20

story. But Literally white lie is the opposite of black sheep. white is good, white is pure and free from evil. So a white lie is a lie free from evil, so a lie without malicious intent. Yeah. And this is used in a lot of phrases like white witch, white propaganda, white magic. So this idea that like something that is usually associated with being evil. Yeah. Like lying. Mm-hmm. But the good kind.

Tanner 8:48

right?

Andi 8:49

So like good magic is white magic,

Tanner 8:51

Right? White hat hacker is someone who finds insecurities to help you fix them. Yeah.

Andi 8:58

Perfect. Right. and the earliest example of Whitely is from 1567.

Tanner 9:02

Ooh.

Andi 9:03

So It was a personal letter by a guy named Ralph Adderley. I don't know who that is, but he was writing, kind of like a letter of recommendation about his brother-in-law. Okay. Who he actually apparently didn't like, but he had to write this. So his quote is, I do assure you he is unsuspected of any untruth except a white lie.

Tanner 9:23

Oh. In Interesting. So even 500 years ago, they were saying he doesn't lie. Accept a white lie. It's an acceptable evil, Yeah. Hmm. Or is is all made up. And

Sups 9:37

I think this, yeah. I have doubts

Andi 9:40

recap the etymology that you're questioning the story is that it means to be free from evil. That version of white and the earliest example is from 1567.

Tanner 9:49

Hmm. That one seems more possibly a lie, than the first one to me because? you didn't talk about how universal it is, whereas the first one is like, it's in every culture, you know, black sheep, same color, same animal. White lie, we only talked about English. So I don't know if this is a, maybe a more modern idea, And

Sups 10:10

why this story like doesn't sound true to me because I feel like white lie relatively is a new concept. Maybe Yes. Is not as old as 16th century.

Tanner 10:20

Mm, Hmm. Okay. Could be. Mm-hmm. Very possible. Or it's from any other time? Any other source?

Sups 10:28

Mm-hmm. Like Right.

Andi 10:30

Speaking of, the next etymologies have to do with Shakespeares,

Tanner 10:33

no way.

Andi 10:34

so color idiom, origin number three to be caught red-handed.

Tanner 10:40

Ah, yes. This one seems very straightforward, right? You're basically caught in the act. Someone catches you with evidence that is clearly marking you as the culprit.

Andi 10:50

that was. Really decent. It is. in the very act of committing a crime or misdeed, or that is still bearing the obvious evidence of guilt. Mm-hmm. And this again, goes back that red is the color for danger

Tanner 11:03

Or I think of it like there's blood on your hands.

Andi 11:05

Exactly. Yeah. to be caught red-handed, Was coined by Shakespeare. Mm-hmm.

Sups 11:10

So, Yeah.

Tanner 11:11

Well, you could take this from any number of his plays, right? There's Switch

Andi 11:14

play it's from? Think think of someone who is Yeah. Out, out. Damn spot is is from McBeth. Yeah. if you don't know Macbeth by William Shakespeare,

Tanner 11:24

the Scottish play, is that what

Andi 11:25

Yes. The Scottish Play. So Macbeth and his wife kind of scheme to kill King Duncan, and then Macbeth actually does it. And so this is the scene in Act two, Macbeth comes downstairs to tell Lady Macbeth that he has done the deed. And so the line is as they had caught me with these red hands. So he's

Sups 11:48

emotions. Come on. Like you're in the plane. Oh, die Lord.

Andi 11:54

actually it is in there. Alas is in there. So he is like saying, he ran into people and he he could not believe that these people didn't like. Catch that he was guilty. Yeah. yeah. And we think he coined it because. There's no evidence of any such concept earlier. Mm-hmm. And after he wrote this, it blew up. You see a lot of people using this now. So Macbeth was very, very popular. Mm-hmm. So probably People liked this idea. Yeah. And you see crime reports start using It

Sups 12:29

I mean, this looks like something my friend William would do. I mean, it's definitely up his alley. Mm-hmm.

Tanner 12:35

he would say that he has basically blood on his hands without saying

Sups 12:38

Right. That's Yeah, of the three that I've heard, I think this is the most

Tanner 12:44

Yeah. I think so too. But then again, if not Shakespeare, then what It could be anything. Could be the Bible, could be from a different culture, could be a translation, this story of Macbeth really checks out for

Sups 12:57

Mm-hmm.

Tanner 12:58

one's pretty straightforward. All

Andi 12:59

great. And Color idiom. Origin number four. Green with

Sups 13:05

Mm,

Tanner 13:05

Uh, yes. It means you're very envious of someone. You're jealous of what they have.

Andi 13:11

Yeah, this is my favorite in the O E D, literally the definition is extremely envious. Yeah, that's

Sups 13:16

It You're extremely

Andi 13:17

envious.

Tanner 13:18

Why green?

Sups 13:19

Dollar. Dollar bejo.

Tanner 13:20

Oh yeah. Is it money?

Sups 13:25

Yeah. enough

Andi 13:25

for me.

Sups 13:26

Thank

Andi 13:26

you. Soups. Sweet. Are done. this is also related to Shakespeare. He didn't use this phrase exactly. No, it was

Tanner 13:34

Eye Devil or something, wasn't it? He had Uhhuh.

Andi 13:37

So Green Eye Monster, This is from Othello.

Tanner 13:41

a classic envy, jealousy

Andi 13:43

Yes. So basically the bad guy at Igo, he tries to convince Othello. that his wife is being unfaithful to the point where he murders her But Green with Envy predates this.

Sups 13:53

Okay.

Andi 13:54

And the question, why green is the question? Yeah. So the origin of this is actually from the Greek humors. which was, medical theory. So you have these four humors inside your body and an imbalance of them is what causes different illnesses. And this was literally medical science for like thousands of years. Yeah. Do you know the four humors,

Tanner 14:17

Blood,

Andi 14:18

Blood,

Tanner 14:18

There's two kinds of bile. There

Andi 14:20

are two kinds of bile

Tanner 14:21

And then phlegm.

Andi 14:23

phlegm, And they're each associated with a color. So we have red for blood, yellow for bile, black for black bile, and white for phlegm, which all happens to be the four colors that are in the

Sups 14:35

I. Okay.

Andi 14:36

So it's called yellow bile. is associated with anger and irritability. you're an md. Have you ever seen bile? Or a gallbladder? What color is it? Green? Yeah. So actual bio inside your body is, a yellowish green, And it's collar is the name of it. It comes from Greek. it seems that the Greeks kind of considered it more. yellow, Mm-hmm. But also pale. So one of the most famous examples of this usage of this color is from Saffo. It is rainbow Months. So we're gonna talk about Saffo a little bit. Yeah. So she wrote. In one of her poems that she was more claro, which is collar than grass. So does that mean greener than grass? Does that mean paler than grass? And supposedly this is when she was seeing like an ex lover or something. So she was having a bout of illness or jealousy or we think maybe jealousy. An Yes. She had an imbalance in her humors and then turned something then grass. So it's not exactly clear where the green came from. Probably from this idea that yellow and green are similar colors.

Tanner 15:47

But how does that connect to envy? So the idea was that like you're so envious of someone that you're sick and so what color would you be? You would turn green.

Andi 15:58

Yeah.

Sups 15:58

Hmm,

Tanner 15:59

interesting. very interesting.

Andi 16:00

So then what you're debating with that one is that it comes from Greek humors being associated with anger and irritability, and through many writers has become associated with jealousy and greenness.

Sups 16:13

to me, when, when you talk about envy, I don't think so much about the internal body reactions I think more, it's sort of an external reaction, right? I'm envious because you have something that I don't have. Mm-hmm. I'm thinking of more from like green as like the color for prosperity you know, money.

Tanner 16:34

Yeah. new

Sups 16:35

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Gotta think a little bit more So we have the four colors, idioms and their etymologies. We have to guess, but could you repeat the idioms please?

Andi 16:49

Okay, so color idiom number one is black sheep of the family color idiom number two is white lie. Color idiom. Number three to be caught red-handed and color idiom. Number four, green with envy. One of those etymologies that I gave is a hundred percent made

Tanner 17:18

Hmm.

Sups 17:19

I mean, from all the origin stories, like um, leaning towards two and four uhhuh, two is something that sounded very creative

Tanner 17:27

Yeah. I think Two or four. The Whitely or the green with envy has a totally unrelated source and she just made this one up

Sups 17:36

Hmm. two.

Tanner 17:37

You think white lie comes from something else?

Sups 17:41

I just Don't believe that they found like such an old use of it,

Tanner 17:46

Mm-hmm.

Sups 17:46

I think it's a much newer concept.

Tanner 17:49

Right. Could be. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's number four. Okay. I think. People want to find a connection. Mm-hmm. And they can't. And so they say, oh, it must be from the

Sups 18:00

humor. Yes.

Tanner 18:01

Even though it's yellow, we'll say It's green.

Sups 18:03

Good. I like it. Yes. So we're thinking the same. It's between two and four. Yeah.

Tanner 18:06

Yeah.

Andi 18:07

I think this whole episode really speaks to why folk etymologies exist because it is so easy to make up an origin and make it make sense. and this is why I think, you know, you need to be very careful when you're looking these things up. Literally for all four of these, when I Google them the first hit. All four of 'em were wrong.

Sups 18:25

Mm-hmm.

Andi 18:26

Yeah. But anyway, Pro tip, if anyone says Shakespeare coined something, don't believe them.

Sups 18:32

Mm-hmm.

Andi 18:33

It is almost certainly not true that Shakespeare coined something. Okay. He did not say to be caught red-handed at all. Oh,

Sups 18:41

Mm.

Tanner 18:42

Um,

Sups 18:44

Now

Andi 18:44

that line does not appear in any play. Okay. I made that up The actual line is as they had seen me with these hangman's hands,

Tanner 18:54

Oh. Which is

Andi 18:55

that means. No totally. I immediately thought of Lady Macbeth an out damn spot, and so I was like, oh, perfect. this this is, what I'm gonna lie about. And it's the Scottish play as Tanner mentioned, this idiom actually comes from Scottish law. in Scotland in the 15th century when they wrote in legal documents, They would mention that someone either was a red hand or with red hands, or was caught with red hands, meaning that they were caught in the act or there was clear evidence and why it's red hand is probably just simply metaphorical. Yeah. And what you can test this is by looking at other languages, right?

Tanner 19:31

Right?

Andi 19:31

In other languages, they have different forms for the same concept. So in Portuguese, it's to be caught with your lips to the bottle, roughly.

Sups 19:39

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Andi 19:39

In France, it's to be caught with your hand in the bag. And in Polish, it's to be caught in a hot deed, which I don't know why, that's what it's

Sups 19:49

okay.

Andi 19:50

super polish. It's just a metaphor. Yeah. It's a metaphor for committing a crime like murder. Mm-hmm.

Sups 19:55

Interesting. I think. I don't think you that. No. But

Andi 19:58

you should know not to trust

Sups 20:00

that. Yeah. I think moral of the stories, I need to go back and start. Rereading the complete works of Shakespeare once again. Because you're like, totally, like, I've read Macbeth, but if you just randomly pull out a line. And I

Tanner 20:12

Yeah, it's

Sups 20:12

totally there.

Tanner 20:13

Yeah. and if you watch it and you're waiting for them to say

Sups 20:16

yeah.

Tanner 20:17

and you're like, wait, they didn't

Andi 20:18

Hey Mo. Hey Man's hand. Another way you can you know, if you wanna be skeptical, is that how metaphorical of a phrase is it? Red Hands is not very metaphorical. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, it is literally a metaphor, but it's not a complicated artistic metaphor. It's a pretty simple one. Yeah. Whereas hinging man's hands is very, Poetic, what does that even mean? Right. And then the other one, green Eye monster, like what is that? He j he just made this idea up. Like what does that even mean? Yeah. So like the more artistic it sounds, the more likely it was coined by someone. Mm-hmm. Whereas like the simpler it sounds, it's probably because it just comes from normal. language. Yeah.

Tanner 20:54

You

Andi 20:55

you don't have to be a William Shakespeare to come up with the red hands.

Tanner 20:58

True.

Sups 20:59

well, I should have known

Tanner 21:01

I should have known. Thanks

Andi 21:02

for listening to, I should have known. were there any color idioms that you wanted to hear about the origins of? we are now on YouTube. So you can leave a comment and let us know. like, and subscribe. Click that bell, leave a comment, whatever, you know, YouTube stuff. And now on Spotify, you can also comment on individual episodes. And if you are not one of those users, you can contact us on one of our social media platforms. and we will be continuing our rainbow theme to kick off season four next week, we will have a sciencey episode from Tanner. And as always, thanks guys.

Tanner 21:40

Billy Shakespeare. I don't know.