Chess - Nerding Out Theme

Andi 0:01

So I know the queen's gambit is a thing

Tanner 0:04

that exists.

Andi 0:05

I don't know

Sups 0:06

what it's, I think this was like a big cold war move, like, you know, this was like a significant move that Bobby Fisher.

Tanner 0:15

won

Andi 0:17

Oh my God, this sounds a hundred percent real. This is a meme bro story. A hundred percent no. Like I have zero doubt in this.

Tanner 0:24

Yes, that's true. And you both mentioned the lie.

Andi 0:30

Hello and welcome to this episode of the a Should have Known podcast, the trivia podcast that can't be trusted. Each week, our Quizmaster presents you with four big facts on a topic, but one of those facts is a We are getting really nerdy this month and our Quizmaster this week is Tanner. Hello. And he is going to do a very nerdy episode about chess. So he will give us four facts about chess, but you have to remember that one of them is a lie. So join me, Andy, and our other host soups in figuring out which one it is.

Tanner 0:59

All right.

Sups 0:59

are you good at chess, Andy?

Andi 1:01

I don't really like chess. Okay. It's boring. uh,

Sups 1:07

have lost kingdoms over a game of chess, so I know, but I play quite often on my phone now. I mean, I watch live streams of chess.

Andi 1:15

Wow. Wow.

Tanner 1:18

You might be more of a chess nerd than me.

Sups 1:19

No. We'll find out

Tanner 1:22

let's start with the low hanging fruit. How many squares are on a chess board?

Andi 1:26

It's an eight by eight, isn't it? Yeah. So 64

Sups 1:30

Well done. Well done.

Andi 1:32

I mean, I, I know how to play. Oh, yeah, I know how it works. Yeah.

Tanner 1:35

64 squares, eight rows, eight columns. And in chess they're called ranks and files. And chess kind of has its origins in India, so a different game chat. Was like a seventh century Indian battlefield. So they had elephants and chariots and cavalry, but the pieces, a lot of them changed when it came to Europe in the 10th and 11th centuries.

Sups 1:56

Yeah. Okay. Okay,

Tanner 1:57

All right, so let's dive into fact number

Sups 1:59

one.

Tanner 2:00

Fact number one, white wins more than black.

Sups 2:05

Hmm. what do you

Andi 2:05

think Well, I do know white always goes first. Yeah. I know that rule. So I mean, I have zero clue if that would give you an advantage or not. I guess if you are like thinking technically, if you are the player that goes first and you're talking about players who win really quickly, then statistically it would always have fewer moves. So then, That maybe is related to it, but like I don't actually No. And it's 50 50. So

Tanner 2:33

There's also a possibility of a Draw.

Sups 2:35

Draw. Yeah. But I think this fact is correct because with white by default, you're attacking, right? mm-hmm.

Andi 2:41

So yeah. Is it easier to be offensive or defensive? Yeah.

Sups 2:44

so you set the tone right with the first move. So logically, yeah. White has higher chances, of.

Tanner 2:51

winning. Mm-hmm. So they call it the first move advantage. White sets the tempo and it starts to attack first and then black is on defense. So some people say that black is at best playing for a.

Sups 3:02

draw

Tanner 3:03

Because it's so hard to win as black when you look at statistics. So since 1851, they began record keeping tournaments for chess. And since then white has won over 50% of the time. when you take into account white wins and half of

Andi 3:17

the

Tanner 3:18

the draws

Andi 3:19

Oh, Okay.

Sups 3:20

Yeah. Because like every time we play with black, I'm actually in a way following the white, like, you know, I'm trying to copy their move

Andi 3:27

that makes sense. Yeah. But then I also wonder, you know, maybe it's easier to be defensive because you only have to react. You don't have to

Tanner 3:35

like,

Sups 3:35

like,

Andi 3:35

attack. I don't know, I'm it's a good fact cuz it's just literally like true or false. So it's either one or the other. Mm-hmm. or I suppose it could be something like, it's actually statistically, No, like maybe statistically it is 50 50 and it doesn't matter. I don't know. Kind of seems like a

Tanner 3:50

game.

Andi 3:52

if simply going first confers that much of an advantage, So with your friends, if you flip a coin

Sups 3:59

then why even

Tanner 4:00

play?

Andi 4:01

You know, you just flip the coin. So, I don't know. I would think if this a game people love so much, maybe it's more. Neutral. Maybe it's more. okay. It's like 50 50.

Tanner 4:11

I dunno. Mm-hmm. ,I have to hear more. Yeah. All right. Let's move on to fact number two. The Queen's Gambit is one of the oldest openings mentioned around 1490.

Sups 4:23

Okay.

Andi 4:25

So I know the queen's gambit is a thing

Tanner 4:27

that exists.

Andi 4:29

I don't know

Sups 4:30

what it's, yes.

Tanner 4:31

Explain us the queen's gambit. Okay. First of all, a gambit is an opening move that's designed to sacrifice a piece to gain advantage. Mm-hmm. so White starts by moving Queen's paw to

Andi 4:44

to

Sups 4:44

four.

Tanner 4:45

So that's

Andi 4:45

two squares ahead, right? Because Paws can

Sups 4:48

can do that. Mm-hmm. ...Yeah. Only in the first

Tanner 4:50

Yep. Yes. Mm-hmm. And then Black follows that by moving their queen's paw to D five. So it's like the same move. The next move that white makes is moving the queen's bishop's paw to c4, which is

Andi 5:05

in a

Tanner 5:05

position to attack black's paw, which just moved.

Sups 5:07

right? So

Tanner 5:09

if black takes whites pawn, Yeah. With this move, that's the sacrifice. But it's an advantage because now black's pawn is not in the middle four squares, which are the best to control. So that's why it's Queens's gambit because it's on the side and it's a gambit because it's sacrificing the white pond to get the black out of the

Andi 5:28

center. Do people fall

Tanner 5:29

for

Andi 5:29

that?

Tanner 5:30

Yeah, it's a very, very common opening and they split up the next parts of the game, depending on whether it's Queen's Gambit accepted mm-hmm. or Queen's Gambit declined. So it's very split across the chess community, whether you take the bait or

Andi 5:45

not. Okay.

Sups 5:47

Okay. But the fact is that this is one of the

Tanner 5:49

oldest chess moves, right? around 1490, there was a manuscript that discussed all kinds of chess moves and openings were kind of a new thing around this time because before this, people

Andi 6:00

just played

Tanner 6:00

randomly.

Andi 6:01

yeah, I think that's a thing like for not so avid chess fans. I think what a lot of novice players don't realize I certainly didn't, is that. Actually the game is not really like learn these pieces and how they move. It's memorized a bunch of these like moves. It's like plays in football or something. Like that's really how people who are good at chess and like a chess,

Tanner 6:22

that's how they play. Right? Or like a cord in music. .Yeah. You can build a whole song out of these chords

Andi 6:29

Yeah. Just memorize the chord. Yeah. So like there's no point in playing if you don't know those against someone who does. Right.

Sups 6:36

I think, sure. Shot You're gonna lose Yeah, yeah. But this makes the game so interesting because there are so many plays, right? There's just millions and millions of ways of how you can do it, and then you are just acting and reacting. Yeah,

Tanner 6:50

this opening is really still popular among the best players.

Sups 6:54

Well, Queen's Gambit of course, became very popular after the Netflix

Tanner 6:59

show. Right. So the show started in 2020 and is based on a 1983 novel of the same

Andi 7:04

name, the Queen's Gambit yeah,

Sups 7:06

it's, a good show. Yeah. but I didn't know if this was the oldest move. Wow. I've

Tanner 7:11

What was the exact fact? The Queen's Gambit is one of the oldest openings mentioned around

Sups 7:16

1490.

Andi 7:18

Okay. so we know chess is way older than 1490. 1490 is not old enough. Right. But if you're saying that openings mm-hmm. as a concept was new. Yeah. By 1490 then I suppose that this fact makes sense. Also, why is it called the Queen's gambit? It doesn't have anything to do with the

Sups 7:36

the queens.

Tanner 7:37

Yeah. It's

Sups 7:38

It's the ponds gambit really. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But the queen's taking the real advantage,

Tanner 7:42

there's also the king's gambit if you use the king's paw. Yeah. So it's just named after where the paw comes from.

Andi 7:48

Yeah, but that's kind of disappointing because I thought if you say Queen's gambit, I'm thinking like you're sacrificing your queen for something, so

Sups 7:55

No better really like, that's kind

Andi 7:57

end of the game

Sups 7:58

if you

Andi 7:59

well, come on. Chess people, I wanted this to be higher stakes.

Sups 8:02

That's what I

Tanner 8:03

wanted. Yeah.

Andi 8:03

Yeah. Sacrifice

Sups 8:04

that queen. Uh,

Andi 8:05

Okay. Anyway, so,

Tanner 8:07

Fact number three. After 24 years of Russian champion, Bobby Fisher became the first American world chess champion

Andi 8:15

in 1991. Okay?

Sups 8:18

Sounds about right? I think

Andi 8:20

so. Yeah. sure. I have heard this guy a lot, and the story of how he defeated the Russians and how this was like a big thing. It's much later in time than I thought it was. 91 is kind of like, well, Who really cares at that point. America definitely won the Cold War by that point. Like, I don't know, but Okay. Yeah, I've heard a little bit about this

Sups 8:41

but I think this was like a big cold war move, like, you know, this was like a significant move that Bobby Fisher.

Tanner 8:48

won and the Cold War

Sups 8:50

also got over.

Andi 8:51

Yeah. So Fisher ended the Cold War by defeating the

Sups 8:53

in a way. In a, way. In a way. because the Russians. They have been, just like the Chinese have been ruling in badminton for the longest period of time. And Bobby Fisher, I thought it was sort of

Tanner 9:04

a cult figure in the US right? Mm-hmm. yeah. He was only 29 when he became the first American to win this championship that started in 1866. him rising to this position was like unheard.

Andi 9:16

of. but I think one thing he's also famous for is like, if you read self-help they talk about how his method for getting

Tanner 9:23

good,

Sups 9:23

it's

Andi 9:24

like, Improving the right way, like doing the right things. Like how he like learned Russian so that he could read Russian chess magazines Yeah. And figure out what they were talking about and what they were doing. So then he knew what the Russians were gonna do. Mm-hmm. and how like,

Tanner 9:38

like,

Andi 9:38

people use that as an example of like, you know, don't work

Sups 9:40

know, Carter works

Tanner 9:42

Right.

Andi 9:42

I mean he's obviously famous for beating them, but like also the unconventional way of doing it. Instead of just play more practice, more memorize, more moves. It was like strategically memorized the

Sups 9:54

right

Tanner 9:54

move. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So he had been playing professionally, since he was eight. He World's youngest, international grand Master at 15. And so he was kind of seen as a Prodigy.

Andi 10:04

So part of this is just simply that he was the first American. Yeah. Which is also kind of surprising. Like if there's one American from like the twenties, bam. Facts a lie. So, I don't know, maybe, but like the story is pretty well known. if it's a lie, it's gonna be in some detail.

Sups 10:21

Well, we've got one more.

Tanner 10:23

All right.

Andi 10:24

Fact number four.

Tanner 10:25

a joke chess opening was used by a world chess champion and a grand

Sups 10:29

master in a tournament.

Andi 10:31

Oh my God, this sounds a hundred percent real. This is a meme bro story. A hundred percent no. Like I have zero doubt in this. This is literally like some Reddit kid who's like, Hey guys, Luca used the move. Ha ha ha. It makes it look like a penis or something.

Sups 10:46

I don't know.

Andi 10:46

know, like, I don't even need to hear this story. That

Tanner 10:48

that's

Andi 10:49

what happened. You nailed it.

Tanner 10:50

you got it. So the move is called the Bong Cloud

Sups 10:54

Yeah, of course,

Andi 10:55

is. Yep.

Tanner 10:56

bring it all

Andi 10:56

Yep.

Tanner 10:58

And you move King's paw Yeah. To E four.

Andi 11:02

Okay. So two

Tanner 11:03

squares up, right? Black fellows suit by moving king's paw to E

Andi 11:08

I also love how for all any of these moves to work, your

Tanner 11:11

opponent has to oblige

Sups 11:12

you. Yeah. Yeah. If you

Andi 11:13

then it's a different opening.

Tanner 11:16

it's like,

Andi 11:16

like, to me it seems like very strange that you can call this a specific opening, if your opponent has to oblige.

Sups 11:22

Yeah.

Tanner 11:22

And then the next move, which has been called an insult to chess mm-hmm. is moving the king

Sups 11:27

to E two.

Tanner 11:29

Yeah. you're you're putting your most valuable piece in danger.

Sups 11:33

Yeah.

Tanner 11:33

On the second move. This was played by Magnus Carlson. Yeah. Who is the world chess champion. Mm-hmm. And then it was followed by the double Bong cloud attack when Black moved its king forward, one square. And that was by Hikaru. Namu.

Sups 11:47

Yeah. Not a big fan of Magnus Carlton.

Andi 11:50

I know literally

Sups 11:51

this little bit

Andi 11:52

him

Tanner 11:53

and I I

Sups 11:54

agree. Yeah. very

Tanner 11:56

annoying. I'm sorry,

Andi 11:57

Magda, you're listening to I'm not sorry. I know

Tanner 12:00

nothing about you. I don't care. Yeah. I mean the personalities of a lot of chess champions are like, Even Bobby Fisher was like, oh my God.

Andi 12:07

Well, I mean, if it's something like this where it's like wrapped up in intelligence and so many people care and you get an inflated ego If you are good at this. Yeah. Like we're doing nerds. Mm-hmm. nerd themes. So nerdy things, right? Like, part about being a nerd is like you care about something,

Tanner 12:24

it's

Andi 12:24

caring for something. Yeah. And so, the most annoying thing to a nerd is someone who thinks it's funny to make fun of you for caring. Mm-hmm. as if that doesn't just make you a human being. Right. That like somehow they're better than you because they don't revere what you do. And so to be

Sups 12:42

see a chess champion and to be like,

Andi 12:43

this game's dumb. Yeah. Look at, I'm gonna make fun of it. Ha ha. That's

Sups 12:49

irritating. Yeah. yeah.

Andi 12:51

So is this going to be like a hopeful thing where it's like, no, he.

Sups 12:55

the moment he took magnets,

Andi 12:57

I can totally imagine him doing it. Okay.

Sups 12:59

Yeah. And you know who

Andi 13:00

is. So checks out So I guess it seems like we're actually choosing between three facts because we seem pretty, pretty confident that that's real. we need you to repeat the four of them again so that we can guess which one we think is the lie. Okay.

Tanner 13:26

Your four chest facts are fact number one, white winds more than black. Fact number two, the Queen's Gambit is one of the oldest openings mentioned around 1490. Fact number three. After 24 years of Russian champions, Bobby Fisher became the first American world chess champion in 1991. In fact, number four, a joke chess opening was used by a world chess champion and a grand master in a tournament. One of those is a lie.

Andi 14:01

I think I'm gonna go with number one because I think the two stories,

Sups 14:05

store

Andi 14:06

just like, yeah. There could be details where that's a lie, but I don't know how I would know that. Mm-hmm. so I'm just like, it's fine with me. The Queen's gambit not being very old. I think that could be really interesting. Like if it's something like, actually it's

Sups 14:19

from the

Andi 14:20

century. Sure. I think the first one is the only one where I could

Tanner 14:23

conceivably

Andi 14:24

Predict that. Maybe that's a lie. I think it maybe is closer to 50 50 because otherwise, like I said doesn't it kind of ruin the game a little bit? you know, what's the point of a tournament for chess? If white wins so much more often, it might not flip a

Sups 14:39

much more. Yeah, so I think it's closer to okay. I think it's between number two and three. Because 1991 Poppy Fisher. That timeline is me off a little bit. Its much

Andi 14:52

yeah,

Sups 14:52

And like Queens gambit. Sure. There are so many more openings. Just don't know if this is

Andi 14:59

But yeah, I think that the lie would

Sups 15:01

maybe be that like Yeah. Mm. So I'm thinking it's between two and three,

Tanner 15:07

So I would

Sups 15:08

say number two.

Tanner 15:11

Okay, so number one is true white wins between 52 and 56% of the time when you take into account half of the draws. And for context in the tournament for Bobby Fisher and Boris Spassky. Fisher won seven of the 21 games. Spassky won three and 11 were draws. So draws are very, very, common. Oh, okay. Draws are very common Yeah. So like this kind of talks about your probability thing of like why even play? Yeah. Because you trade off who's white

Andi 15:40

So you're playing each other multiple times in order to Okay. But that's why they have to do it though. Yeah. Because the game is

Tanner 15:48

inherently unfair. Yeah. exactly. Interesting. Queen's Gambit was mentioned in this manuscript from 14 90. Yes, that's true. And you both mentioned the lie. Bobby Fisher beat Spassky

Andi 16:01

in 1970.

Tanner 16:02

Okay. He's much older Yeah, that's

Andi 16:05

I thought so was the fall of the ussr. Oh, okay.

Tanner 16:07

date. Yeah.

Andi 16:08

Oh, that's what I was like. Also, Bobby Fisher defeated the

Sups 16:12

Yeah. He brought down the Berlin. Yeah. Yeah.

Tanner 16:14

Single handedly.

Sups 16:15

so that's why I'm thinking, because Bob Fisher

Andi 16:17

is

Tanner 16:17

like way

Sups 16:18

older and I, and I, think in Queens's Gabit there

Tanner 16:21

is a character based off of Bobby Fisher. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. President Nixon at the time, his national security assistant, Henry Kissinger mm-hmm. called Bobby Fisher and said,

Sups 16:31

America wants you to go over there to beat the Russian Yeah.

Tanner 16:33

yeah. yeah. So, okay.

Andi 16:36

Yeah. That would've given away So this is some hardcore Cold War. Mm-hmm. Americanness. All right.

Tanner 16:41

Yeah,

Andi 16:42

So you just went with the lie was just that it's 91 is when the Soviet Union actually fell? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I thought that was kind of coincidental, cuz I did know that. Yeah.

Sups 16:52

Well,

Andi 16:54

Yeah. You should have known. for listening to this episode at the I should have known podcast. will be continuing with our nerd theme for the rest of the month. And if we could just ask a favor of you, please, please. If you love chess leave us a. Five star review wherever you listen to podcasts, because it really helps us out getting this in front of more people. And as always, thanks for listening.

Sups 17:20

Castling