AI: Unsung Heroes of Science - AI Should Have Known Theme

Tanner 0:01

The AI really went to great lengths

Sups 0:03

to write her

Tanner 0:03

bio. She

Sups 0:05

went all over the place.

Tanner 0:06

Everything about this

Sups 0:07

fishy.

Tanner 0:09

Okay. If she's real, that's

Sups 0:10

really great. Yeah.

Tanner 0:13

Hmm. I'm trying to think of what questions I could ask to discover if it's a lie or not.

Sups 0:18

Please

Tanner 0:18

don't. Okay.

Sups 0:21

AI

Tanner 0:21

I

Andi 0:21

play no mind games on me.

Sups 0:23

Yeah. Like ai definitely

Andi 0:24

mind games. You guys

Tanner 0:25

Oh, it does,

Sups 0:27

It does. It does. Yes.

Andi 0:29

hello and welcome to this episode of I Should have known the Trivia Game Show that Can't be Trusted. Each week, one of our quizmaster will present you with four facts about a topic, but one of them is a lie So this week I'm your Quizmaster. I'm Andy, and. I'm going to be doing a find the fake episode on unsung heroes of Science. So I will give you four people who have contributed to scientific advancement, but maybe have been overlooked. But the fake, I did not invent. I actually had an AI invent the fake person. So everything about them, the bio personal details, where they're from, when they were born, everything the AI invented, not me. So join our other hosts, sups and Tanner, and figuring out which one of the unsung heroes is an AI fake.

Tanner 1:22

All right. Very cool. So we're digging deeper into the archives of science

Andi 1:28

And also on the forefront of science using AI to invent a person. But we need to do R P Q Q.

Tanner 1:36

Oh

Andi 1:36

So our pub quiz question is a question at the top of the show designed to be like one you would get at a pub quiz or bar trivia event. And it's supposed to open up the topic.

Sups 1:47

Okay.

Andi 1:48

While Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin made history in landing on the moon, who was the third member of the Apollo 11 crew who remained in orbit.

Tanner 1:59

I know of his story. He went all the way there and he never landed. But I can never remember his name.

Sups 2:03

Yes. But there's a phrase right. to describe this person.

Tanner 2:06

He was the loneliest person, right?

Andi 2:08

Yes. yeah. That's another fact that he was the farthest any human has ever been from any other

Tanner 2:14

human. Yeah. huh?

Sups 2:16

but to answer your question I mean, we know of the guy, right? But I can't, is

Tanner 2:21

it like James Collins or something?

Andi 2:25

I might give it to you cuz that's his last name. Okay. It is. Michael

Sups 2:29

Michael Collins.

Andi 2:30

Michael Collins also called the forgotten astronauts.

Sups 2:33

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Andi 2:34

Yeah. So as the third member of the historic Apollo 11 crew, he's often overlooked by the two members who actually walked on the moon. Mm-hmm. So all the people we talk about today are gonna be kind of like him. We're like, you probably know their contributions to science, but you don't know their

Tanner 2:49

name.

Sups 2:49

Yeah.

Tanner 2:50

Cool. Let's find out some different sorts of scientists today. Yeah.

Andi 2:55

Yeah. And remember one of these people, an AI

Sups 2:58

invented. Mm-hmm. Love it. Okay. Let's do

Andi 3:01

it. Amazing. All right. So unsung hero number one. is altar,

Sups 3:06

Laar

Tanner 3:06

Allar

Andi 3:07

the Arab botanist and illuminator. Born in Damascus in 1215. Okay. This is our first hero of science.

Tanner 3:15

Damascus?

Andi 3:17

Yeah, so he was born in Damascus, but died in Big Dad because he is one of the famous scientists who studied and taught and. produced books at the House of

Sups 3:29

Wisdom.

Andi 3:29

also known as the Great Library of

Tanner 3:31

Baked Up. Oh.

Andi 3:32

that. So Altar is his like Anglicized European name. Yeah. Okay. Like many other scientists from the. Islamic Golden Age. Mm-hmm. He has a anglicy name. Right. do you wanna know his full name? Yeah, sure. it's Abu Al Iim, Mustafa Al.

Sups 3:52

Atar Ash.

Tanner 3:55

Okay.

Sups 3:55

Okay,

Andi 3:56

So Al Atar is a nickname he was given, and it basically means like master of herbs and

Tanner 4:03

perfumes. Oh, okay.

Sups 4:05

Yes. because ATAR is a kind of perfume it's very prevalent in the Middle East, also in South Asia. And you can custom make it and then you just apply directly on

Tanner 4:15

the skin.

Sups 4:15

Yeah. Oh, wow.

Andi 4:16

Yeah.

Tanner 4:17

Okay,

Sups 4:17

Very cool.

Andi 4:17

I didn't know that. Yeah. So he was, the son of a calligrapher and

Tanner 4:22

bookmaker. Yeah. You said he was an illuminator.

Andi 4:25

Yeah. So his most famous contribution is this illuminated manuscript. The translation into English is the comprehensive book for the sustenance of the mind in the science of weeds and medicinal plants. Okay. I'm not gonna try to do

Tanner 4:40

it in there.

Sups 4:40

Come on.

Andi 4:41

I, I cannot, yeah. So that's the translation of his book. Mm-hmm. And so this

Sups 4:46

book,

Andi 4:47

like many others, was eventually copied and translated and spread throughout Europe and many other parts of the world. Mm-hmm. So a was an illuminated manuscript. He actually, Decorated it

Tanner 4:58

himself. So those are these fancy drawings in there and Yeah. Sometimes painted and there's gold leaf

Andi 5:04

added to the mm-hmm. Yeah. It was basically

Sups 5:07

a

Andi 5:07

visual

Tanner 5:07

dictionary Oh, cool. Of weeds

Andi 5:09

and herbs.

Sups 5:10

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Cool.

Andi 5:11

And one of the surviving pages depicts the

Tanner 5:14

willow bark.

Andi 5:14

And it follows the doctrine of signatures.

Tanner 5:18

I've heard of this? Yeah. It's where a plant is used for a medical purpose because the plant resembles that part of

Sups 5:25

body.

Andi 5:25

Yeah, exactly. So the thing with the Willow. That he talked about pain relief from willow bark, which actually is real. So Salicin is the chemical in Willow bark, which is the main chemical component of aspirin. Mm-hmm. this relieves pain. Yeah. So that was Right, right. The reasoning was not so right. Yeah. Al Atar He reasoned that because the leaves of a weeping willow. Look like someone

Sups 5:51

weeping.

Tanner 5:52

Ah,

Andi 5:52

Okay. That they would naturally relieve pain. Yeah. As it like someone weeping

Tanner 5:57

from pain.

Sups 5:58

Very logical. Yeah.

Tanner 6:00

Very interesting. So many of you know, European inventions or discoveries, there's an earlier Arab or Middle East Source, right? This is perfectly

Sups 6:09

lines up

Andi 6:10

with that.

Tanner 6:11

Do you think an AI made that one

Sups 6:12

one up? I dunno.

Tanner 6:14

It sounds pretty believable. The name fits what I would expect, Mm-hmm.

Sups 6:19

And I like the invention or like the field that he's really, that's, that's kind of

Tanner 6:23

interesting. Super cool.

Sups 6:25

Yes, I have a feeling AI might not have created or generated

Tanner 6:30

Yeah. Sounds pretty realistic

Sups 6:31

to me. Yes. yes. yes. But,

Andi 6:34

we

Tanner 6:34

have three others.

Sups 6:35

Yeah. So, okay.

Andi 6:37

Let here the second one. Yes. Unsung hero number two Mary Anning, English paleontologist. Born in Dorsett, England in 1799.

Tanner 6:49

Okay. I have an idea of

Sups 6:50

where this is going.

Andi 6:51

Yeah.

Tanner 6:52

You know, finding dinosaur bones on the, British

Andi 6:54

aisles. Yeah, Yeah. Do you wanna tell the story?

Tanner 6:56

Yeah. No, no. Let's hear Mary's story.

Andi 6:59

Yeah, so Mary Anning was born in Dorsett, England, which is on the southern coast. Mm-hmm. Part of it is known as the Jurassic Coast. Maybe you've heard that before. Yeah, So there are big cliffs right on, on the shore of the sea, and it's called the Jurassic Coast because a lot of fossils from the Jurassic period can be found there. So she and her family, they were quite poor. Okay. And they made money by selling fossils.

Tanner 7:29

Like as a novelty, like just to anyone. Okay.

Andi 7:32

So she was completely self-taught, when her father. Died. She started doing it on her own and she found the first full fossil of an OSAs.

Tanner 7:43

Oh. it's like a dinosaur, right? Yeah.

Andi 7:46

It had like a long beak. It's almost dolphin

Sups 7:48

like, was a fish

Tanner 7:49

like dinosaur.

Andi 7:50

Okay. she found the first one, she found the first

Tanner 7:52

full fossil

Andi 7:53

one. Oh. She also is famous for finding a full fossil of a plesiosaur, which is another water dinosaur, but like a big one like Nessi. Yeah. If you think

Sups 8:03

Nessi, that's

Andi 8:03

a,

Tanner 8:04

Monster.

Sups 8:04

yeah.

Tanner 8:05

Lochness Monster She

Andi 8:06

I Yeah. So she was friendly with a lot of famous scientists of her day. Mm-hmm. She was very rarely credited for her work, technically she was not a professional. because women weren't allowed into The Geological

Tanner 8:22

Society of London.

Sups 8:23

wow.

Andi 8:24

Yeah. Even unsung in her day. Yeah. But many people say that Darwin was influenced by her research. Mm-hmm. Because she found many intermediate fossils. So fossils that are like between two

Sups 8:38

Okay.

Andi 8:39

But one cool thing is these very specimens that she found are now in the Natural History Museum in London. Okay.

Tanner 8:46

Ah, So you can go see them That's exactly what I was gonna ask, like, Did we recognize her today? are, are we showing her fossils

Andi 8:52

and giving her credit now? Yeah. You

Tanner 8:54

That's great. Okay. If she's real, that's

Sups 8:56

really great. Yeah. I mean this is a, I think this is a potential fake, I would say if I compare this story to the first one. Mm-hmm. I think this is just. About creative enough for AI to Yeah. Come up like, Sure. I mean, it's a movie plot that we've seen

Tanner 9:13

You get the cameo from

Sups 9:14

Darwin. you get a, Yeah, you get a cameo from Darwin.

Tanner 9:17

Hmm. I'm trying to think of what questions I could ask to discover if it's a lie or not.

Sups 9:22

Please

Tanner 9:22

don't. Okay.

Andi 9:23

What was her name again? Mary

Sups 9:24

Anding. Mary Anding. Mm.

Tanner 9:26

Okay. Yeah. It's not one of those names that's like, oh, it's, it's Darwin backwards. Or something like, a human might make up. It's like,

Sups 9:34

AI style, Yes. I like how you're thinking. But

Andi 9:37

yeah, we give AI too much cred. Yeah. I was gonna say, I feel like the AI

Sups 9:40

AI usually

Tanner 9:41

gives like dominated, they give it away. Yeah. Hmm. I think the first one's more likely than this one to to be

Sups 9:47

real. this one's more likely to be fake, Fake. Yeah. That's what,

Tanner 9:50

what you said. Yeah. we're halfway there.

Andi 9:52

Yes. Okay. Um, Song hero number three. The Chinese

Tanner 9:58

American physicist

Andi 10:00

Born in China. in 1912 She moved to the US and went to school for her PhD at the University of California Berkeley. so she went to Berkeley and then she got a job at Princeton and then she eventually went to Columbia where she became the first female tenured physics professor. So during World War ii, she stayed in America

Sups 10:24

and worked on the Manhattan

Tanner 10:25

Project

Andi 10:27

She worked on the uranium enrichment. Okay. So she did a lot of experiments. So she's very well known for her experiments. She didn't propose so many theories, but she

Tanner 10:38

did a lot of

Andi 10:39

experimenting. Okay. So she eventually did what is known as the WOO experiment, which proved that parody is not conserved during subatomic

Tanner 10:51

actions.

Andi 10:51

Mm-hmm.

Tanner 10:53

Okay. I feel like I have to take a class at Berkeley

Andi 10:55

to understand I don't fully understand, but the important thing is that there was such a thing in science at the time called the law of conservation of parody and parody is basically symmetry. Mm-hmm. Okay. So she did some experiments that were like, that doesn't seem so true. Mm-hmm. So then two other scientists that she knew, Ali and Chen Yang published a work in 1957. Based on this rewriting the law of conservation, using her experiment, they were nominated for Nobel Prize and whoever nominated them included her. But for some reason the Nobel Committee snubbed her. They removed her and gave them the Nobel Prize in 1957. So she did not get it.

Sups 11:38

Oh, no.

Andi 11:39

They tried for many years to nominate her,

Sups 11:42

Yeah. Yeah.

Andi 11:43

She was awarded some other prestigious awards, but are like

Sups 11:47

only known among

Andi 11:49

physics people.

Sups 11:49

Okay.

Tanner 11:50

yeah, if

Andi 11:50

She did some really

Tanner 11:51

interesting things that I do not fully understand.

Andi 11:54

she studied hemoglobin. She proved beta decay. She was very famous for experiments. We had a theory and you wanted to test it. You go to Dr. Woo. Dr. Woo knows what to do,. Wow.

Tanner 12:05

That's very interesting. The AI really went to great lengths

Sups 12:08

to write her

Tanner 12:09

bio. She

Sups 12:10

She went all over the place.

Tanner 12:11

Everything about this

Sups 12:12

fishy. Oh yeah. Yes.

Tanner 12:14

Hmm. yeah, if you boil it down, she was born in China, moved to America, studied at the best schools, revolutionized physics experiments, even helped make the atomic bomb and never got

Sups 12:26

a Nobel Prize. And that's the

Tanner 12:29

point that's

Andi 12:29

bothering me

Sups 12:30

this is a very

Tanner 12:31

well

Sups 12:31

well-rounded story.

Tanner 12:33

It's fishy to you. Yes. It sounds

Sups 12:35

fishy to me. Yeah.

Tanner 12:36

for Dr. W, I think

Sups 12:38

it sounds

Tanner 12:39

fake. Yeah. There's a lot of details. Even more than the other

Sups 12:42

ones. Yeah.

Andi 12:43

so

Tanner 12:43

the AI is

Sups 12:44

trying to convince you exactly and I love it, touched all the universities. You know, you went to Berkeley.

Tanner 12:50

Colombia? Yeah. Princeton. I mean, if she was real, then hats

Sups 12:54

off to her. That's awesome. I mean, sure. I'm, I'm just

Tanner 12:57

surprising I didn't

Sups 12:58

include Harvard there. Why leave

Andi 12:59

Harvard actually, you know,

Tanner 13:00

Their physics department isn't good enough for her.

Sups 13:02

Yeah,

Tanner 13:03

Yeah.

Andi 13:04

have no idea.

Tanner 13:05

Yeah.

Sups 13:06

Highly skeptical Yes. I know. Right. Okay, so

Tanner 13:09

let's listen to four

Sups 13:10

unsung hero. Yeah.

Tanner 13:12

See if this one is even less likely.

Sups 13:14

Yeah.

Andi 13:15

All right.

Sups 13:15

Unsung

Andi 13:16

hero number four is Gladys West,

Tanner 13:19

West

Andi 13:20

who is the Black American mathematician. Born

Tanner 13:23

in 1930

Andi 13:25

in Virginia. She's

Tanner 13:26

still alive actually. Okay, Okay.

Andi 13:28

So she was, born in rural Virginia to a family of sharecroppers she studied at Virginia State College. Which is now called Virginia State University, is a famous H B C, historically black college. Mm-hmm. So she got her bachelor's degree there and then in 1952 she graduated and went to teach math at segregated schools. So this was during segregation in the American South. So schools were split up between schools for white kids, schools for black kids. So, she didn't love that too much. She applied for many government jobs, was overlooked, went back to school, got an advanced degree. Eventually she was hired. She was the fourth black employee ever hired at the US Naval proving ground.

Tanner 14:11

Which

Sups 14:12

is like

Tanner 14:12

a research facility

Andi 14:13

for the US Navy.

Tanner 14:14

Okay.

Andi 14:15

where do they do experiments or research. Yeah. Okay. So she programmed computers to do math equations Instead of doing them by hand. And she

Tanner 14:23

worked on a project

Andi 14:24

called csat,

Tanner 14:26

C

Andi 14:26

in s e a as in the ocean. Mm-hmm. And.

Tanner 14:29

And Using

Andi 14:30

a bunch of calculations and programming computers and a bunch of stuff I don't understand. They figured out that it is possible to get

Tanner 14:37

a

Andi 14:38

to take accurate ocean data. Okay. That eventually became geos sat. Mm-hmm. Which on that project, she figured out how to include in her calculations, things like gravity ties and other elements. In order to calculate the orbits of satellites. Oh, so then if you know the exact orbit of the satellite based on the data, what you can do is draw an

Tanner 15:00

accurate oid. which is,

Andi 15:03

So a OID is the exact shape of the earth. Yeah. Including all of the mountains and ridges and all of the different elevation okay. Which is still used today

Tanner 15:14

in

Andi 15:14

gps. Mm-hmm. So global

Tanner 15:16

Oh, positioning,

Andi 15:16

they used

Tanner 15:17

the

Andi 15:17

that she did to do that. Okay. So, she's known, and maybe you've

Tanner 15:22

heard of the Hidden Figures?

Andi 15:23

Yeah, yeah, I've heard of that movie. Well, it's not based on books. It's not just a movie or a book, but it's a nickname for many

Sups 15:30

scientists,

Andi 15:30

particularly black women Who contributed to science and math, but were overlooked. Mm-hmm. She was finally formally recognized for her

Tanner 15:40

contribution

Andi 15:41

to gps.

Tanner 15:42

In 2018.

Andi 15:44

Oh, wow.

Sups 15:44

Took them a while. Yeah.

Tanner 15:46

So this seems believable.

Sups 15:47

Yeah. It seems very believable. Yes.

Tanner 15:49

much more

Andi 15:50

more believable.

Sups 15:51

Yeah. Mm. I

Tanner 15:53

don't think

Andi 15:53

I agree.

Tanner 15:54

so many of the details sound so concrete and that

Andi 15:58

makes it easy

Tanner 15:59

believe, but

Sups 16:00

I'm very inclined to believe that. Yes, yes. Yes. Me too. Me too.

Tanner 16:04

If It did turn out to be an AI generated

Sups 16:06

one, then I guess it's playing on our Knowledge. Knowledge of that, like, these things

Tanner 16:11

happen, but this is not the person you

Sups 16:13

were thinking about. Yeah. But, AI

Tanner 16:16

I

Andi 16:16

play no mind games on me.

Sups 16:18

Yeah. Like ai definitely

Andi 16:19

mind games. You guys

Tanner 16:20

Oh, it does,

Sups 16:21

It does. It does. Yes. Okay, so We've got four unsung heroes.

Tanner 16:26

now we have to guess which

Sups 16:27

one is made up by an

Andi 16:28

Ai.

Tanner 16:29

Yeah.

Sups 16:29

Do you wanna repeat the

Andi 16:31

names

Sups 16:31

of

Andi 16:32

those unsung hero? Sure. unsung Heroes of Science. One of these was created by an ai, so hero number one, AAR the Arab botanist and illuminator. Hero number two, Mary Anning, the English paleontologist hero number three, Chinese American physicist and hero number four, Gladys West, the black American mathematician. One of them in AI invented. Okay.

Sups 17:11

So One and four I think are real. Yeah. I think the choice comes down to Mary and Dr. W. Right?

Tanner 17:18

Yeah. I think the exact same thing.

Sups 17:20

think we

Andi 17:20

can spread

Tanner 17:21

ourselves and guess like it's

Sups 17:22

two or three. Yeah. You know, the thing is Doctor Woo really bothers me. Okay. Like, because the details are like so specific. feels very AI to me. Okay.

Tanner 17:33

Yeah. Something I'm Comfortable. Okay. Yeah. I think the second one I think this connection

Sups 17:39

to Darwin

Tanner 17:39

just so. Iffy something. Yeah. I dunno. I feel like an AI would drop that in as

Sups 17:45

like a hidden Nuggets. Yeah. I think the second one is yeah.

Tanner 17:48

I'm gonna pick Dr. Wolf. Okay. That's the AI generated one. All right. And Mary Anning number two for me.

Andi 17:53

All right, so your guesses are in.

Tanner 17:57

Mm-hmm.

Andi 17:57

Enlightenment.

Sups 17:59

So the AI

Andi 18:00

person is AAR number one. the AI invented him. No way. Yeah. Wow. but now

Sups 18:07

it's coming to me like an AAR like it

Tanner 18:09

can't really be a

Sups 18:11

person's name. Right. it's a perfume. Right, right. That's literally what it

Tanner 18:15

right?

Andi 18:16

so he gave this whole name and it's like, oh, it's aar. Cuz it's like the perfume reference, like it was making a joke. Yeah, Yeah. Also, if you happen to be a real history buff The

Sups 18:26

House of Wisdom was destroyed in 1258

Andi 18:29

by the Mongols. Yeah. Timeline doesn't line. Um, and I was like, ai, what the heck? it just was like, Nope. Yeah. wouldn't he been at the House of Wisdom when it was destroyed? But he never mentioned that.

Sups 18:39

Oh

Tanner 18:39

boy.

Andi 18:40

Yeah. How did you get it

Tanner 18:41

to make this person So I

Andi 18:43

asked it to give me a fake Arab scientist from the Middle Ages okay. And it gave me a couple different things. It picked, it was from Damascus. he went to the House of Wisdom. It picked the years that he was alive.

Sups 18:56

It's actually

Andi 18:56

quite late. This is really the end of the Islamic Golden era. So like most of the scientists that it's inspired by were in like the 10th or 11th century. Wow.

Sups 19:06

Right. So it kind of a

Andi 19:07

a bit of work, But it took

Tanner 19:08

so much handholding

Andi 19:09

it did take a lot of handholding. cuz it, kept being very vague. Yeah. Maybe we did this.

Sups 19:15

And I think we sort of didn't examine the timeline at all.

Tanner 19:18

It also sounds

Sups 19:19

a lot like the

Tanner 19:20

the real life

Andi 19:21

Senna. Yes. Right.

Sups 19:23

Even, even

Andi 19:24

Sona Evens known as Senna in Europe so I did eventually ask the ai, I was like, who are some real scientists? Like Altar? Yeah. And it said Ena Yeah. he was a physician. I think I remember that from history of medicine. I did eventually ask it, what. Would a

Sups 19:39

medical student in a

Tanner 19:40

history of medicine class

Andi 19:41

learn about altar you might learn about the use

Tanner 19:46

of Willow bar.

Andi 19:46

And like it invented

Tanner 19:48

that That's awesome. He decided

Andi 19:49

that I don't know where it got this idea from.

Sups 19:51

That is super cool actually. It did. It did. But I, I think it just needs a little bit of push. Yeah.

Andi 19:59

But that's super cool. I really like it. Yeah, that's really nice. Yeah, I kind of felt bad at the end cuz I was like, this is impossible. Yeah. This

Tanner 20:07

So good. This

Sups 20:08

real. it's terrifying. Yes. Yes. Which it did.

Andi 20:11

we, as

Sups 20:12

you

Tanner 20:12

clearly

Andi 20:13

in we didn't a debate about it. Yeah. It's true. The robot got you guys.

Tanner 20:18

Yeah. job well done. Nice job. you fool us.

Sups 20:20

So I think

Andi 20:21

It's

Sups 20:22

scary and impressive.

Andi 20:23

Yeah. Well,

Tanner 20:23

Well,

Andi 20:24

huh. I should have known, I should have known. Thanks for listening to this episode of, I Should Have Known, we'll be continuing. AI should have known the theme for this month all of our episodes are now on YouTube. It's just the audio for now and we're hoping to get some more things up there. So it's a great place if you want to leave a comment. Especially if you are actually listening right now on YouTube, you should definitely leave a comment. Did you figure out that the AI had invented a laar? What do you think about the fact that the AI could do this? And you know, the classic YouTube like, subscribe, comment, If you're listening on a traditional podcast platform please leave us a review of some kind. You can now comment on Spotify. So same question for you. And we'll be finishing up our AI theme next week. Very exciting. The AI is going to be the quizmaster, so. That should be amazing. Definitely be on the

Tanner 21:17

lookout for that one, and

Andi 21:18

always,

Sups 21:21

Please tell me when this is right. I think we are.